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Author Topic: Realizing things and it's upsetting.  (Read 1884 times)

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Offline Armalite_

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Realizing things and it's upsetting.
« on: June 22, 2017, 08:08:30 AM »
I registered on this forum June 16th, 2009. That was 8 years and one week ago. At the time I was 16 years old and was a largely different person wallowing in my self-loathing and teen angst. I was making bad choices and living life how I wanted to, not caring if anything hurt or killed me. I was edgy, played the guitar, wore black, hated authority, and smoked and drank at the skatepark (I hear that isn't a big thing with kids or teens anymore?). Being a furry wasn't part of the picture until I learned about the fandom during a short interest I shared with werewolf enthusiasts online that wrote stories and made artwork sometime in 2007. The topic had come up when someone asked if anyone on the board was a furry, many of the replies were filled with disdain, yet I was intrigued.

Fast forward 10 years to now. I'm 24 years old and found my identity, suffered heartbreak, killed with my hands, invested time and money into things I probably shouldn't have, experienced betrayal, success, and failure...and I'm still a furry. I never really thought of myself as a responsible adult or a proper functioning one because my entire life I was raised to always do better or be better at everything. I am always trying to learn the best way to do something and keep learning as much as I can. I have never felt true appreciation for anything I've ever accomplished because I have never felt good enough for anyone or anything. I know I'm capable of doing anything I put my mind to, but just how well can I do it? I ask myself this every single time I'm challenged with a new feat.

I've graduated university with honors, now attend college because I hated the industry I studied, and operate a $1 million business with 2 partners and 2 staff. Everyone says I should be happy and proud, but I simply don't feel this way. People that come in my place of business that are twice my age assume I'm just some guy that works there because of the age difference. It's not possible to them that someone half their age is capable of opening a business of this magnitude - and it hurts. I just feel like I've got to prove myself when I don't have to prove anything to anyone. I juggle work, school, and my social life that keeps me sane. I can count on one hand how many of my friends I see often, 2 hands if I'm willing to drive atleast an hour to see them. I'm pretty social, but I don't trust anyone enough to try and make myself open to making new friends and I don't know how to give people a chance. I've been burned too many times to bother wanting to try. Yet at the same time, I really miss having a lot of people to talk to and visit.

I suppose I'm still in the fandom as a way to socialize with people I will never be close with. People I can talk to behind a mask who will never really get to know me, but instead a character I've made up. I often feel like I don't fit in with a lot of other furs who act like animals or kids. I understand being a furry is never losing touch with your inner-childlike spirit, but I feel like I've lost touch with the innocence given the stress of daily life and hardships. Maybe I'm not cut out for the fandom like I used to be, but I was chasing a childhood dream of going fursuiting and travelling the world's fur cons. Once you work to make all that money and actually commission a suit, its like 'ok, now I can either afford to eat this month or go to this con' and you've got a $3500 suit hanging up in your room that barely sees the light of day. Then you gotta schedule time off work without getting fired or having problems come up when you're not there. Then you go to the con and find out that people are either so young that they didn't even exist when the Towers fell or they're neckbearded entitled idiots waving communist flags - at a fur con, calling people Nazis. Why is it so hard to find someone nowadays to have a good old fashioned conversation that isn't politically charged, walking on eggshells fearing "trigger words" and bullcrap? Am I just getting too old for all this?

Sometimes I feel like I don't fit in anywhere anymore. It just sucks. Sorry about the long post, props to you if you read the whole thing.

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Offline Ventus Fall

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Re: Realizing things and it's upsetting.
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2017, 09:00:39 AM »
Hey, Armilite!

I read it all and I cannot tell you how similar this sounds to my own situation. No, I don't run a business and have people working for me, but I have other stuff that is similar, especially with regards to everything else you're saying.

Apologies in advance if my reply is a bit messy, I'm trying to reply to everything and incorporating my own thoughts, feeling and experiences, but I'm doing my best to word it right!

About 10 years ago I was probably the most unhappiest in my life. I found out a bit later exactly as to why.
(Talk for another time.)
Point is, I've gone through a lot of shizzle too, I guess I'm hoping to be able to reach out to you like so.

I was the best of my class (or at least I was one of the people with the highest grades, not sure as we don't really have an honours thing where I am, as far as I'm aware).
No matter how good I was at something, I had a few issues:

1) I have issues in certain areas that other 'normal' people don't have, therefor I need help/guidance sometimes in certain ways. Things sometimes need to be laid out to me. Once I get it, I usually don't need that specific help anymore, as I would have learned to do it by myself. It sounds maybe 'basic', but apparently it's not to most people.
This makes me sometimes feel I'm stupid, when I know I'm not. I used to think sometimes maybe I'm just way too smart for people. How can they help me if they should be smarted than me and are able to help, but can't?  But then if I'm so smart, why can't I properly explain to these people where the problem is?
That's the trouble: I know where the problem is, I know often what can help me (which I sometimes need others for), but I have trouble with wording it. Even if I try it in different ways it doesn't seem to work.

2) You with your age? I have a similar problem, I look younger than I am, but nonstop I experience the following things:
I talk to people online (they don't know how I look like) and they say I sound mature and old (sometimes even wise). When I talk to people in real life (they see how I look like), then they seem to not be as interested into listening to me, find me young and even estimate me a few years younger!
I even experienced once (such a clear example) that I spoke to two people of a school, people who were in charge of accepting/declining new students, via the telephone and I think per e-mail too. Later, I of course had to go there for a meeting, so they could see me.
For some reason I already had a feeling as soon as the meeting was going to happen, I'd be declined, even though they mentioned I was practically already accepted per e-mail/phone.
Once there, the first thing I heard?
"Oh, we thought you were much older, you look so young."
Later on in the conversation they told me I was declined, because I was so young (I LOOKED YOUNG! You already know my age when we spoke via the telephone because the emails, you requested information on me (e.g. my age!) *rant over*).
I should try again a few years later if I couldn't find a school by then or whatever they said, point is, even though I was the right age for that school, because they thought I was older, then saw I looked younger, I was declined.
So that was nice *sarcasm*.

I've never wished, however, to grow up and to be older. I never really understood why people would want that. I do now, but before I did not.
What I did wish for was that people would talk to me and treat me with the same respect they would anyone else who is 'grown-up'. Age shouldn't matter.
I hated the fact people talk to me like I was a small child (sometimes that still happens!), while you might need to explain certain things very bluntly and straight-out, I can comprehend more than they assume, but they don't realise that, because they see how young I am, and when I ask for help to explain a certain thing, they put two-and-two together in their minds and act and talk to me like I'm a small child.
Sometimes I just mentioned terms and phrases which make me sound like I'm indeed much smarter and older than they are assuming to shut them up when they act like that. It helps, but I wish I didn't have to do that. It's exhausting when people talk to me like that.
Ugh, ranting too much on this, anyways...

Doing so well and never feeling you're doing the best or such... I know it probably won't mean much coming from someone online saying this to you: But you are awesome for having your own company and doing so well!
Of course, you can always do better, grow and learn. I'm sure you're company will go through good and bad times in comparison to one another, you will go through bad and good times.
It's good to have that drive to keep on improving and to become better.
The only thing I would suggest is to slow down at home, take a moment to rest, reflect on yourself. I mean, you have here, but in another way. In the way of how much you have achieved, how you have grown. Reflect on the good things.
Don't ever stop with pressing on. Heck, I don't even think you can stop :P But look at what you want, are you getting what you want right now? Or do you need to make a few changes?

Perhaps you already thought of this before, but regardless, I hope this helps.

As for being online, a furry character representing you.
I don't use Ventus as a mask to hide myself. I know some people use their characters to hide themselves, to appear how they want to be, or appear as someone/something else.
But for me? Ventus? She is me. It's why with all my other characters, I can never really replace her. Every 'sona I have is me, every character I make is me in a way. But Ventus is really me.
I never really grasped the concept earlier on in life to make a character to act as someone different online. I can't do that, that would be lying to me. I can't lie, not for and about myself.
If I don't want to talk about something, I'd just say that I don't want to talk about it.

I guess I'd never really have this 'stay connected with your inner-child', I recall one of my first thoughts when I was 6, I realised I understood a lot of things, a lot that many my age did not, yet I could not verbally speak out to say certain things.
I did have a slightly different vocabulary. E.g. I would say the polite-form of 'you' to older people, and the informal 'you' to friends and peers, whereas others my age would simply always use the informal way in whatever situation. Small differences, but in many places.
I felt much older than everyone else, and so I guess I always felt as if I'm an old soul trapped inside a too-young body :P
Eventually it'll catch up. I hope XD

Last time I went to a furry con, it was much more politically-loaded than any other time I went to a con, but I also noticed it's with who I am around.
And where I myself am in regards to that conversation. If I don't want to talk about it, I'd politely go away or try to talk about something else.

We all are in the fandom and 'use' the fandom in different ways. For me, I have used it and am still using it as a way to express my art. Finding the fandom actually helped me with where I wanted to go with my art.
I found many friends here as well, who I am still into contact with to this day (from the first day I joined to now).
Even my partner I found here.
I don't know where the latter will take me, but it's already very different from any other relationship I've been in. (While I'm of course biased, I try to look at things as objectively as possible.)

Back on track:
I don't think you necessarily are getting old for the fandom, I know quite a few who are in their 30's and 40's :P
Heck! I even met four people in their 50's at the last con!
It was amazing what sort of discussions you can have with them, they know a lot about the fandom, its history, and things that may play a part with how the fandom came to be (think of mythology), all things I have talked about as well, but never really been able to talk to others about.

I think it's moreso figuring out what the fandom means to you, and what do you want to 'use' the fandom for?
If it's to make friends or to simply socialise, then that should be a good enough reason as it is :)
No one has to ever get extremely deeply involved with the fandom, you do what you want and how you want to in your way, what feels best to you.

Hope this helps, sorry for the many side-tracks, but hope this helps...
Take care!


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Offline George

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Re: Realizing things and it's upsetting.
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2017, 10:06:06 AM »
I don't have nearly this much to say, I'm afraid, but there is something that stuck out to me that I feel I should mention.

It's not just furries, it's everyone. I think it's because of the Internet, specifically the sort of democratic setup it's getting. Most social media is now curated based on how many people agree with it, so folks get into this mindset that the best thing socially to do is express opinions on controversy. Since I'm still quite young, I can't say for sure that this is as new as it feels to me, but from what you two are saying, it is.

The main thing that makes me say it is the contrast in content within the forums of old and the social media of now, or the topics of conversation a few years ago vs. what people generally talk about now. It's been a while since I overheard something about sports instead of the president. XD

tl;dr: I think it the masses have just gotten really political lately and it bothers me just as much, if not more.

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Re: Realizing things and it's upsetting.
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2017, 09:23:40 AM »
Thanks for the well wishes Ventus, it still does mean a lot. That's quite the reply, I'm going to do my best to respond to all of it.

In response to #1, I think it more has to do with communication rather than not understanding. I don't blame you for needing things laid out before being able to do something. That should be standard procedure. However, not everyone can communicate everything that needs to be known, and sometimes things are even purposefully redacted. The best people to work with are the ones who can communicate every detail that logically outlines the purpose for anything related to a project. I find also struggle with communicating things, especially with progress or whats going on. But I also find I can communicate ideas better in writing than I do talking. I often communicate with people via email correspondence in a professional environment and will outline my ideas in writing if I'm trying to get a point across to people in person. I sure there's way for you to communicate ideas more effectively, even if it's to ask for help. You just need to find out what works best.

#2 I feel like we're both going to be dealing with this for some time. I don't ever wish to be older either, but I'm at this awkward young adult stage where I'm too young to be taken more professionally by older people and too old to fit in with a younger crowd. I can't party like I used to nor do I have the same energy that just gets sucked out of me from working everyday. I've been told that's just how life is now, and it made me upset to think that I will never have another lazy summer or winter holiday that isn't spent working until I'm too old and have to retire. People my age are expected to work hard and buy a house despite the inflated market and lack of financial support from any bank. It's even more insulting that the boomer generation considers us lazy or unmotivated when they didn't deal with similar economies.  I digress, but yeah, being a young adult is almost as bad as being a misguided teenager.

I wish I could take your advice to slow down, but there are literally not enough hours in a day for me to do that unless its on a Sunday, my one day off. Usually when I get back from work, I collapse in my bed and wake up to eat dinner then go back to bed for work the following day. Pretty soon that will change and I'll be working everyday once my last year of college starts in September. 18 hour days with 6 hours to sleep will become the norm. But nothing, and I MEAN NOTHING will stop me from attending a fur con I plan. I do get what you're saying though, but it'll have to be a slow down at work when I take a break for 5 minutes. I'm always catching up on sleep at home :(

Honestly I get what you mean about your fursona representing you, but realistically if I framed Spike or Armalite off my real personality, they'd wouldn't have the most friendly attitude. That's why I made them different. I wanted them to be positive and energy driven, which forces me to think like them if I'm getting into character. I wish I could be like my fursonas out of character but that too, takes a lot of energy I don't have enough of. I'm just too tired to be like them all the time, but it feels great when I can.

It's nice to forget my problems once in a while. Dressing up like a giant dog and leaving my phone somewhere else lets me not be so stressed out about work problems and people I have to deal with. I've never thought that I "used" the fandom for anything really. I legitimately love almost everything about it, but I can certainly say it's been there for me when I needed a break from my routine.

I think you come off more polite than I do at cons if you're being bothered or made to feel uncomfortable. I was never really a soft person when it came to dealing with strangers and often come across as confrontational if someone is acting arrogantly or ignorantly. I suppose that's the real me breaking character though. I was always tell people what's good if they sound or act like they need to snap back to reality. I've dealt with too many unsavory people in my life and rude people I haven't one second of patience for.

I suppose I agree I'm not getting too old for the fandom, Spike was my first fursuit and soon Armalite will be completed too (which I cannot wait for). The political climate has definitely changed. I hope it lets up soon, because I grew tired of it a long time ago. The fandom is supposed to be a place where everyone forgets their differences and problems, not exploit them.

And George, thanks for your input. I do agree it's been everyone. People are believe too much crap they read online and see on TV. No one actually has the balls to turn off their TVs and computers and talk to their neighbours anymore. Everyone wants to make America great again, everybody is with "her", or everybody is fed up with the state of America like it's the center of the universe. I guess I just need a break from all this content. It really does test one's mental health.
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Offline Bricket

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Re: Realizing things and it's upsetting.
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2017, 10:56:53 AM »


I suppose I'm still in the fandom as a way to socialize with people I will never be close with. People I can talk to behind a mask who will never really get to know me, but instead a character I've made up. I often feel like I don't fit in with a lot of other furs who act like animals or kids. I understand being a furry is never losing touch with your inner-childlike spirit, but I feel like I've lost touch with the innocence given the stress of daily life and hardships. Maybe I'm not cut out for the fandom like I used to be, but I was chasing a childhood dream of going fursuiting and travelling the world's fur cons. Once you work to make all that money and actually commission a suit, its like 'ok, now I can either afford to eat this month or go to this con' and you've got a $3500 suit hanging up in your room that barely sees the light of day. Then you gotta schedule time off work without getting fired or having problems come up when you're not there. Then you go to the con and find out that people are either so young that they didn't even exist when the Towers fell or they're neckbearded entitled idiots waving communist flags - at a fur con, calling people Nazis. Why is it so hard to find someone nowadays to have a good old fashioned conversation that isn't politically charged, walking on eggshells fearing "trigger words" and bullcrap? Am I just getting too old for all this?

Sometimes I feel like I don't fit in anywhere anymore. It just sucks. Sorry about the long post, props to you if you read the whole thing.

Sorry in advance that I will only respond to the last part of your rather impressive "rant".
About the political aspect in your rant I already said something in a different thread (radicalisation).

But it sure does hit a certain truth, especially the dream part of things.
I have the same thing with politics and business. At first I thought it was going to be great: making a change, deciding things, have power, do the good thing, make money. But the reality is awful, why? Because it's all about the [We all know what word]-ing money!

About the getting too old for the furry-stuff. I don't know, I didn't join as an edgy teenager but as an edgy adult so I don't know when you're too old. at this moment I might be already too old for this, I wish I knew

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Re: Realizing things and it's upsetting.
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2017, 09:50:05 PM »
YEEEEEE I know what you mean.


I just liked the art the people are just like anyone else.


And as for the political part I think the commies and left wingers drove me to caring about politics lmao I used to not and be quite the Nihilist to but I am sure I will still be living while these growing radical movements ruin the world. I hate them I hate Nazis to and do not like fascism but if a bunch of weakling communists want to turn the nations of the world to trash throw history in the dumpster stomp on Western Culture and bring multiculturalism to no end and bring inevitable bloodbath like nutty radicals always do then I feel like I'll have to do whatever I can if it gets to that point. I'm hoping its just some fad but I doubt it is.


Furry fandom attracts lots of  people with no identity and lots of people with no identity cling to nonsense like communism and Marxism even though those movements have consistently failed to accomplish much of anything good while Capitalism and Enlightenment ideology could over time just by allowing opposition to have a voice.



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