"Humans are the Absolute Good" and misanthropy

[anoni]

I think the main reason that is, is not because they're trying to brainwash the public into thinking that humans are absolutely good, but it's there cause it is easier to understand and relate with. In reality, good and evil is very blurred, it really depends on what side you're on. Most people would consider ISIS evil, but people in ISIS believe they are doing some good, I believe they're evil but it's just pointing out how the notion of "evil" and "good" is not objectively universal. However, this concept has two problems in a movie industry.

  1. It's complex
  2. It's not satisfying.

  A common thing in movies is that they try to appeal to the lowest common denominator, they want the movie to be easily understood and satisfying to as many people as possible (as they can make more money this way). So a complex moral framework isn't gonna be very great for your summer blockbusters or casual games like Kid Icarus. But that's fine in a way, these movies and games aren't designed to make you think about philosophy and morality, they're designed to be an entertaining ride, which is probably why most people love it, is because they see it as an entertaining ride, rather than a real statement on humanity and society. So I would wager the reason people love Kid Icarus is not because they agree with the sentiment that humans are absolute good, but it's more that they haven't even really considered it, they enjoyed the characters, the story and the ride of the game, they didn't really take note of any message behind it or at least didn't get the same message as you did.

  The other thing is of course, a grey moral framework, while interesting, is not satisfying. Almost every game, movie or media device will have a protagonist and an antagonist. Someone who is inherently good and someone who is inherently evil. The person who is inherently good is usually a human, because people can relate to them. "He's a human, I'm a human, I can relate to him!", it's going to be harder to relate to an alien species, which is why movies like Avatar and District 9 spend a good portion of the movie trying to relate to the audience that the alien species are the good guys,. If the good guy was Jake Sully there'd be no problem, he's a human and you can relate to him, it's not about humans being absolutely good, it's more that we are humans and we generally support our own kin. Regardless, if we had no real good guy and no real bad guy, a lot of the time it can leave an audience confused and not so happy. Some shows have done a terrific job of making a moral grey framework, like Dawn of the Planet of the Apes and Game of Thrones, which try to enforce the idea that "we're not saying who is good or evil, we're just letting you decide for yourself".

  So yeah.

[BennyJackdaw]

A common thing in movies is that they try to appeal to the lowest common denominator, they want the movie to be easily understood and satisfying to as many people as possible (as they can make more money this way). So a complex moral framework isn't gonna be very great for your summer blockbusters or casual games like Kid Icarus. But that's fine in a way, these movies and games aren't designed to make you think about philosophy and morality, they're designed to be an entertaining ride, which is probably why most people love it, is because they see it as an entertaining ride, rather than a real statement on humanity and society. So I would wager the reason people love Kid Icarus is not because they agree with the sentiment that humans are absolute good, but it's more that they haven't even really considered it, they enjoyed the characters, the story and the ride of the game, they didn't really take note of any message behind it or at least didn't get the same message as you did.

No, trust me, it's because Nature is this evil force that wants to destroy the "oh so misunderstood" human race and modern day man wants to be constantly reminded about how holy they are. Explain to me then why pretty much EVERYTHING that portrays nature as evil and humans as the absolute good is pretty much unhateable. As for connecting with the main character: The LAST species I connect with are humans, so that theory is pretty much reversible for me. Plus, not only are the villains rarely human: when they are they are generic animal lovers or misanthropes.

This can also be connected to "Animal welfarists" who basically treat it as a crime to truly care about animals while their "oh so precious humans" don't have brutally slaughtered meat on their table as they enjoy it while wearing their luxurious skinned-alive mink coat in a living room filled with decapitated animal heads. It feels like there's this huge push to make people love humans and hate everything else.

[anoni]

Haha, I don't think movies that portray humans as the absolute good are unhateable I think there are many examples of bad movies that portrayed humans as good and some other force as bad, in fact a lot of movies are hated BECAUSE they do that. Some example movies are Starship troopers 2, Skyline, Battlefield earth, all are very hated movies and tv shows, but they depict good humans fighting against the bad alien threats, another example would be transformers as well. In terms of humans vs nature, there aren't that many movies these days that depicts nature as BAD and humans as good, as in "the forests and animals are evil and we have to destroy them", I mean, I dunno of any movies that try to give off that message personally and I'm pretty sure any movie that attempted that would be universally panned, unless they did it really well. Most movies concerning humans vs nature are on the side that humans are destroying nature and doing bad things to it and they need to stop, queue Avatar, inconvenient truth, Day after tomorrow, etc.

  So no, I think you're wrong when you say movies that portray humans as good are unhateable. As for Kid Icarus, I mean, you say people love it because it portrays humans as good and the enemy as bad, but have you ever considered that people might just like it cause it's a fun game?

  Also, please name one popular movie (IE: Not some indie movie) that has the main Villain as an animal lover (with that being his main trait), I'm intrigued.

  EDIT: Also while you might not relate to humans (How do you not relate to humans? You're a human, again, this is just you separating yourself from the rest of species, trying to say you're "different", but in reality you're just saying "I don't relate to people who abuse animals" or "I don't relate to the people I disagree with", stop using humans as such a general term because YOU'RE a human and you can't escape that) most people do and movies are made with most people in mind xD

[MrRazot]

I would also really like to see an example that enforces your argument.
Unless you're taking the fact that most people eat meat out of proportion.
I could List a tons of movies and whatnot that go against your point all together.
Unless again you want movies where the characters are exclusively Anthropomorphic, which then I could list some more movies that go against your point.


I think you could be looking into things too much into how characters are portrayed.
A lot of things are in context of situations like in fantasy or movies set in medieval times where they all wear leather armour and eat meat by a fire. They obviously hate nature despite that being a representation of the supposed period. Duh.


I can't think of a single Movie where the Protagonist is a destructive force that's trying to take down an Antagonist that has sided with Nature.
MAYBE something like when Han Solo cuts open the Tauntaun to save Luke in EP.V, but then it's still a lesser evil than the Death Star wiping out entire planets of life and abusing the Ewoks.


Please provide some examples so I can maybe see from your point of view.

[BennyJackdaw]

So no, I think you're wrong when you say movies that portray humans as good are unhateable. As for Kid Icarus, I mean, you say people love it because it portrays humans as good and the enemy as bad, but have you ever considered that people might just like it cause it's a fun game?

EDIT: Also while you might not relate to humans (How do you not relate to humans? You're a human, again, this is just you separating yourself from the rest of species, trying to say you're "different", but in reality you're just saying "I don't relate to people who abuse animals" or "I don't relate to the people I disagree with", stop using humans as such a general term because YOU'RE a human and you can't escape that) most people do and movies are made with most people in mind xD

Honestly, I do NOT think Kid Icarus is fun. The controls are terrible and the overall gameplay is clunky.

Well, Pokemon Black and White, for starters, had animal loving villains, but even they weren't typical misanthropes like Lysandre was. I know that's not a movie, but it's still a form of media. There's also the game The World Ends With You which has an enemy roster made up almost entirely of animals. Even Viridi from Kid Icarus, while more of an anti-hero than a flat-our villain, is still an antagonist to the "oh so glorious human race." These kind of themes don't just apply to movies.

It's not just "animal lovers" either, but animals themselves. The movie "The Grey" depicted wolves as these demonic creatures, which may be a common thing, but I still found it more or less demonizing.

But I think the biggest contributation to the ideal that "humans are good and animals are evil" isn't the media, it's the quote/unquote "Animal Welfarists" who never actually support things that help animals, but instead shove their pro-killing believes down peoples throats and try to convince people to like humans by giving MORE reasons to hate our own species.

I'll admit, it might just be me and I look for it more than most people do, but still, it feels like I see anti-environmental messages and pro-"humans are the absolute good" messages a lot.

Just because I AM human doesn't mean I have to relate to them. And just because I am human doesn't mean I can't hate my own species. Plus, my dislike towards my species stems FAR beyond what we do to animals or just one group, but also includes our greed, lust, bullying and many other crimes that we just accept, even justify (especially bullying), so please stop telling me I have to like or relate to my own species, because I don't. Plus, there's no reason most people cannot accept a non-human protagonist. Even if it's not their own species, there are still ways people can relate to a non-human.

I find non-human characters to be interesting because they're NOT like me, because it's more intriguing for a character to be different from me.

Off Topic: I remember this movie called Jupiter Ascending that came out recently. I saw a guy mention it as a furry movie, but the main characters are obviously human, and I'm pretty sure the aliens that look like anthropomorphic creatures are evil, so I don't see how it is.

[anoni]

I'll admit, it might just be me and I look for it more than most people do, but still, it feels like I see anti-environmental messages and pro-"humans are the absolute good" messages a lot.

A self-confirming statement, the reason you see more "humans are the absolute good" messages much more than most people is the fact that you actively look for them. For example, the movies and games you suggested.

Pokemon: I've never played the specific game you're referring to, but I do know one of the primary antagonists in the pokemon universe is Team Rocket, who in the lore act as pokemon poachers. IE: The main bad guys in most pokemon games are people who are abusing pokemon, not people who love pokemon and nature. I have no idea about the world ends with you.

While "The Grey" does depict wolves as the primary antagonist, the movie makes a point that the reason the wolves are attacking is because the humans are in their territory, not because they are inherently humans. Also a lot of the humans within that movie do acts that would not be considered good and these acts are highlighted, including robbing dead bodies.

I still think you are over-generalizing humans as a whole and separating yourself from the rest of the species, which is bad for reasons I've stated before.

[Midnight Madness]

Since Anoni has more than covered everything I would say in the face of this topic, but I have played Pokemon Black and White, and so have many others. But as many who have played the games will tell you, Team Plasma is not a valid counter to the argument against your opposition.

Spoiler for Pokemon Black and White/Black 2 and White 2 plot details:

Team Plasma used "Pokemon Liberation" as a ploy to further fuel their own ends of world domination, so that all trainers would release their Pokemon and Ghetsis would be the only one to have them, making him the most powerful person on the planet. And in many instances, Team Plasma abuses Pokemon to meet their ends. The whole time, they claim to love Pokemon and are only using them as a "necessary evil" in order to achieve their 'dreams.' And all through the game, the "Pokemon Liberation" scheme gets everyone thinking; they wonder if they have, indeed, done wrong to their partners and consider releasing them.

The whole story of the games is centered around the Yin, Yang and Wuji in Taoism. And even then, N is one of the main antagonists to start, only to turn around and maintain his ideals but live out his dreams at the same time with the help of Reshiram/Zekrom. On top of that, Black 2 and White 2 further emphasize that Team Plasma was not "pure evil" nor were they "absolute good." Some of the Seven Sages admit to this themselves at the end of the first two games, while others come to understand it at the end of the second. But more so, you have two Team Plasmas; Team Plasma and Neo Team Plasma. In that game, the "animal loving side" of the first two games are shown as the heroes on multiple occasions, just as some members showed deep regret for their actions in the first game (especially those whom you meet in Team Plasma's Castle before the showdown with N.

Team Plasma weren't working to help Pokemon in the first place, even if some of the grunts may have believed so. They were given orders by the abusive and hateful Ghetsis and were manipulated to do the things they did, N especially.

Oh, and consider... Anoni already said Team Rocket, but Team Aqua and Magma are some good teams to look at as well. Team Aqua wanted to make a world filled with bounteous water to make richer habitats for Pokemon while Team Magma wanted to expand the landmasses to give humanity more room to live. Both teams were portrayed as villains, but what happened at the end? They resolved their differences and came to understand that no one side was right. Humans and Pokemon deserved to live together in the same harmony they had for years. Team Galactic didn't even know what the hell they wanted, but their leader's evil plan? Manipulate legendary creatures by chaining them down and forcing them to erase the universe so he could build it all in his image. And Lysandre was just a man driven to destructive desperation after trying to fix the world's problems and failing.

As for the Manga, since it has some very messed up images, refer to Pokemon Adventures: Yellow.

Anyway, I just wanted to put that out there to debunk the accusation of Pokemon Black and White (and Pokemon as a whole) portraying humans as "absolute good" or demonizing animal lovers.

[BennyJackdaw]

I'll admit, it might just be me and I look for it more than most people do, but still, it feels like I see anti-environmental messages and pro-"humans are the absolute good" messages a lot.

A self-confirming statement, the reason you see more "humans are the absolute good" messages much more than most people is the fact that you actively look for them. For example, the movies and games you suggested.

Pokemon: I've never played the specific game you're referring to, but I do know one of the primary antagonists in the pokemon universe is Team Rocket, who in the lore act as pokemon poachers. IE: The main bad guys in most pokemon games are people who are abusing pokemon, not people who love pokemon and nature. I have no idea about the world ends with you.

While "The Grey" does depict wolves as the primary antagonist, the movie makes a point that the reason the wolves are attacking is because the humans are in their territory, not because they are inherently humans. Also a lot of the humans within that movie do acts that would not be considered good and these acts are highlighted, including robbing dead bodies.

I still think you are over-generalizing humans as a whole and separating yourself from the rest of the species, which is bad for reasons I've stated before.

In the older games, yes, the main villains were NOT animal lovers. This mostly started in Black and White, and somewhat continued in X and Y. Lysandre isn't an outright animal lover, but he is a generic misanthrope stereotype. Ruby and Sapphire also have environmentalist-themed villains, but they're more or less rivals who only care about SOME animals rather than all.

Whether I'm exagerating or not, one thing I DO know is that movies and forms of media that DO actually have non-human protagonists are almost NEVER well received anymore. Name something in the last three years that has non-human goodguys in them that is actually good. (And no, elves, dwarves and hobbits don't count as non-humans.)

Not really. Even when people are good hearted, there are still ways we are all contributing to this planet's destruction. I mean, what am I typing  this message with right now? A computer that uses lot's of energy, probably from a power plant that emits lots of smog and such. Some people buy lots of plastic products that end up in landfills and such. We all do things that hurt the environment and we don't even know it. That's not to say we are bad for using the computer or buying plastic products, but it does show how hard it is for humans to live on planet Earth without some form of destruction, even when you don't try to be destructive. Yes, animals do have destructive capabilities, but in no way do they compare to ours.

Honestly, I'm sick and tired of people telling me "No, you mean THIS, not that. You are not allowed to hate humans! You MUST accept the things we do! We are misunderstood!" Just please shut up about this, okay? Until we as a species actually overcome our problems and actually shape up to make a better planet for life and everything, I will always dislike HUMANS, not SOME humans. It's not a "Black and White" statement, it's just seeing us as a whole.

edit: No, Team Plasma was still just a typical "animal lover demonization" BS. Even when people didn't know the true goals of Ghetsis, they were treated as a complete waste of oxygen. One character even DID call Team Plasma "A Waste of Oxygen." Plus, the big reveal just seemed like a cop-out for something else.

[MrRazot]

Personally, I'm trying to save up to invest in my own Solar panels, I recycle water and when I do buy something in plastic, I reuse the plastic.

Movies with Non-Human protagonists?
Do Wall-E and Finding Nemo count?
Fantastic MrFox was also great.
How to Train your Dragon was pretty good but may not count.
The problem is that most people relate more with Humans. It's not that people don't like movies with non-human protagonists, It's that it's safer these days for movies to star a gun toting while male. It's not that they're not being well received, it's that they're not being made to be poorly received.


Team Plasma are a lot like those idiots that drove all over the Nazca Lines. Despite their good intentions, they still attempted extreme methods of brainwashing the masses (through the use of a Munna), battling trainers then stealing their defeated pokemon and even the theft of ancient relics.
Their extended plots were to break into the Pokemon storage system and release as many pokemon as possible and then use legendary pokemon(Reshiram and Zekrom) and technologically enhanced extinct pokemon(Genesect) to essentially rule the world.
When Cheren called team plasma a waste of oxygen, he was referring to how pathetic and fruitless their plots were.

[BennyJackdaw]

Personally, I'm trying to save up to invest in my own Solar panels, I recycle water and when I do buy something in plastic, I reuse the plastic.

Movies with Non-Human protagonists?
Do Wall-E and Finding Nemo count?
Fantastic MrFox was also great.
How to Train your Dragon was pretty good but may not count.
The problem is that most people relate more with Humans. It's not that people don't like movies with non-human protagonists, It's that it's safer these days for movies to star a gun toting while male. It's not that they're not being well received, it's that they're not being made to be poorly received.

Good for you. We can't fully deviate from destructive nature, but we can come close by doing as such. I think Solar energy is a good idea because there's an almost unlimited amount of it, so it's easily renewable.

Meh, I kind of meant something a bit more recent than the first three, but I guess How To Train Your Dragon 2 counts.

The problem with that though is... it's being way overdone. Those kind of characters are becoming so generic, that actually having non-human protagonists would break up the monotony of those kind of characters.

[Midnight Madness]

edit: No, Team Plasma was still just a typical "animal lover demonization" BS. Even when people didn't know the true goals of Ghetsis, they were treated as a complete waste of oxygen. One character even DID call Team Plasma "A Waste of Oxygen." Plus, the big reveal just seemed like a cop-out for something else.

You completely ignored every point I made in favor of your own side. When I said "I don't think I'm going to change any minds" about this kind of mindset in the Everyday Venting thread, I couldn't have seen more confirmation of the statement if I had gone out of my way to find it. You're only seeing what you 'want' to see in order to 'confirm' your opinion if that's all you have to say in response to my multiple paragraphs. I said, and I quote:

And all through the game, the "Pokemon Liberation" scheme gets everyone thinking; they wonder if they have, indeed, done wrong to their partners and consider releasing them.

And to add to it? A Gym leader says this: "Remember your speech in Accumula town? You were responsible for making me rethink my relationship with Pokemon. For that, I thank you. At that time, I made a promise... I swore to myself that I'd dedicate myself to Pokemon even more strongly! What you guys are doing... aren't you going to strengthen the bond between people and Pokemon even more?" And directly after this, Ghetsis alludes to his plans not being genuine. "The world I--I mean Team Plasma--desire!" A shortened version, but he says this every time you talk to him. Know why that's there? To make you suspect there's a deeper hidden agenda other than trying to 'help Pokemon.'

I'm only trying to tell you the facts behind the games themselves and add depth to your very misleading and uninformative statement before about how it's just a game where 'animal lovers' were made into monsters.

Other games? Team Aqua still wanted to do it for things other than humans. As for Team Magma? I said they were in it for humans the whole time, rarely mentioning the Pokemon of the land. But again, they had that mindset and turned it around. It's especially notable in OR/AS. And I never argued against your point about Lysandre. Too bad I do see a decent number of people saying they're misanthropic and that death to all humans is the only solution (even though another species would rise up to our role since they'd have breathing room to do so and make many of the same mistakes), so it doesn't strike me as remotely inconceivable of the misanthropic types.

For the record, I'm not trying to change your opinion on humanity. I'm just trying to show you that the Pokemon games you're accusing of pushing this "humans are absolute good" mindset (that I have actually never seen anywhere in my entire life aside from some fools irl) are not doing that at all. I mean hell, the villains are never the Pokemon, just the people who purposely manipulate them to do their deeds, regardless of the consequences.

[BennyJackdaw]

edit: No, Team Plasma was still just a typical "animal lover demonization" BS. Even when people didn't know the true goals of Ghetsis, they were treated as a complete waste of oxygen. One character even DID call Team Plasma "A Waste of Oxygen." Plus, the big reveal just seemed like a cop-out for something else.

You completely ignored every point I made in favor of your own side. When I said "I don't think I'm going to change any minds" about this kind of mindset in the Everyday Venting thread, I couldn't have seen more confirmation of the statement if I had gone out of my way to find it. You're only seeing what you 'want' to see in order to 'confirm' your opinion if that's all you have to say in response to my multiple paragraphs. I said, and I quote:

And all through the game, the "Pokemon Liberation" scheme gets everyone thinking; they wonder if they have, indeed, done wrong to their partners and consider releasing them.

And to add to it? A Gym leader says this: "Remember your speech in Accumula town? You were responsible for making me rethink my relationship with Pokemon. For that, I thank you. At that time, I made a promise... I swore to myself that I'd dedicate myself to Pokemon even more strongly! What you guys are doing... aren't you going to strengthen the bond between people and Pokemon even more?" And directly after this, Ghetsis alludes to his plans not being genuine. "The world I--I mean Team Plasma--desire!" A shortened version, but he says this every time you talk to him. Know why that's there? To make you suspect there's a deeper hidden agenda other than trying to 'help Pokemon.'

I'm only trying to tell you the facts behind the games themselves and add depth to your very misleading and uninformative statement before about how it's just a game where 'animal lovers' were made into monsters.

Other games? Team Aqua still wanted to do it for things other than humans. As for Team Magma? I said they were in it for humans the whole time, rarely mentioning the Pokemon of the land. But again, they had that mindset and turned it around. It's especially notable in OR/AS. And I never argued against your point about Lysandre. Too bad I do see a decent number of people saying they're misanthropic and that death to all humans is the only solution (even though another species would rise up to our role since they'd have breathing room to do so and make many of the same mistakes), so it doesn't strike me as remotely inconceivable of the misanthropic types.

For the record, I'm not trying to change your opinion on humanity. I'm just trying to show you that the Pokemon games you're accusing of pushing this "humans are absolute good" mindset (that I have actually never seen anywhere in my entire life aside from some fools irl) are not doing that at all. I mean hell, the villains are never the Pokemon, just the people who purposely manipulate them to do their deeds, regardless of the consequences.

I did not ignore your post or your points, but I still feel that Plasma was meant, as a whole, to be anti-environmental and anti-animal, but that Nintendo copped out down the road. In addition, Team Plasma is heavily compared to PETA, an unpopular animal activist group. But eventually they brought the idea that nature and nature lovers are evil and that humans are these misunderstood creatures back in Kid Icarus Uprising, which really does have a "Humans are the absolute good" feel. In a way, you could say Team Plasma is meant to be an "Animal Welfare" based team that claims to care about animals but only care about humans, but I doubt anyone these days would make that intention. I don't see how I'm being mislead because I still feel that Team Plasma was originally meant to be an anti-animal lover stereotype, just that I've seen them that way for a very long time, and I probably always will. Call me stubborn, but that's always how I will view them.

The amount of misanthropes that actually mean that is very low. Most of the time, people who say that are just really angry.

I've seen it a LOT more than most people have.

[Angder]

[stuff]
I've seen it a LOT more than most people have.

That, to be blunt implies:

A ) Deliberately seeking the media to confirm your biases

B ) Extreme coincidence

Also you need to remember, there are more villains than heroes in media, and so all groups look disproportionately villainous: all big corporations are evil (A lot of things set in modern day America, or almost anything in a dystopian future, have this as a major theme), all governments are corrupt from the ground up, most scientists care nothing for morality (those that do are bumbling idiots), The police who are not corrupt are incompetent, most poor people are committing crimes, the rich are all assholes.

I can give evidence for ANY of those claims and can clearly show examples that "Prove" that these facts are displayed in popular media, and paint all groups involved in a bad light.

The point is Villains MUST be more numerous than heroes, as one hero goes through a lot of villains, that's why it looks like these groups are being bashed if you go looking for it.

looking at your specific "Target" Well intentioned extremists make for interesting villains and nature is an easy place to go with that. It effects everyone, and is in part caused by everyone, and it can lead to interesting villain designs. making an interesting environmentally friendly hero on the other hand is very tricky without.... well... making captain planet. ultimately though, note the "Well intentioned" part at the start of this paragraph, most depictions I see of this stereotype constantly hammer home that the villain is God-damn RIGHT!

[anoni]

I'll admit, it might just be me and I look for it more than most people do, but still, it feels like I see anti-environmental messages and pro-"humans are the absolute good" messages a lot.

A self-confirming statement, the reason you see more "humans are the absolute good" messages much more than most people is the fact that you actively look for them. For example, the movies and games you suggested.

Pokemon: I've never played the specific game you're referring to, but I do know one of the primary antagonists in the pokemon universe is Team Rocket, who in the lore act as pokemon poachers. IE: The main bad guys in most pokemon games are people who are abusing pokemon, not people who love pokemon and nature. I have no idea about the world ends with you.

While "The Grey" does depict wolves as the primary antagonist, the movie makes a point that the reason the wolves are attacking is because the humans are in their territory, not because they are inherently humans. Also a lot of the humans within that movie do acts that would not be considered good and these acts are highlighted, including robbing dead bodies.

I still think you are over-generalizing humans as a whole and separating yourself from the rest of the species, which is bad for reasons I've stated before.

In the older games, yes, the main villains were NOT animal lovers. This mostly started in Black and White, and somewhat continued in X and Y. Lysandre isn't an outright animal lover, but he is a generic misanthrope stereotype. Ruby and Sapphire also have environmentalist-themed villains, but they're more or less rivals who only care about SOME animals rather than all.

Whether I'm exagerating or not, one thing I DO know is that movies and forms of media that DO actually have non-human protagonists are almost NEVER well received anymore. Name something in the last three years that has non-human goodguys in them that is actually good. (And no, elves, dwarves and hobbits don't count as non-humans.)

Not really. Even when people are good hearted, there are still ways we are all contributing to this planet's destruction. I mean, what am I typing  this message with right now? A computer that uses lot's of energy, probably from a power plant that emits lots of smog and such. Some people buy lots of plastic products that end up in landfills and such. We all do things that hurt the environment and we don't even know it. That's not to say we are bad for using the computer or buying plastic products, but it does show how hard it is for humans to live on planet Earth without some form of destruction, even when you don't try to be destructive. Yes, animals do have destructive capabilities, but in no way do they compare to ours.

Honestly, I'm sick and tired of people telling me "No, you mean THIS, not that. You are not allowed to hate humans! You MUST accept the things we do! We are misunderstood!" Just please shut up about this, okay? Until we as a species actually overcome our problems and actually shape up to make a better planet for life and everything, I will always dislike HUMANS, not SOME humans. It's not a "Black and White" statement, it's just seeing us as a whole.

edit: No, Team Plasma was still just a typical "animal lover demonization" BS. Even when people didn't know the true goals of Ghetsis, they were treated as a complete waste of oxygen. One character even DID call Team Plasma "A Waste of Oxygen." Plus, the big reveal just seemed like a cop-out for something else.

I think you're totally right, non-human characters protagonists are never well received.

  It's not like a movie that depicts aliens as the good guys and humans as the bad guys would ever have the largest financial box office of any movie ever made ever (Avatar),
  Nor is it possible that many animated features would have non-human protagonists and be well received (Finding Nemo, Monsters Inc, Little Mermaid, Bambi, Alpha & Omega, etc, etc, etc)
  Nor is it possible that non-human live-action movies about animal would be well received at all either (8 below, warhorse)
  Ah, but it is movies in the last 3 years that have non human protagonists that aren't well received, it's not like a movie would ever be nominated for an oscar that has a tiger as one of the protagonist (Life of Pi) or a FREAKIN OPERATING SYSTEM as a protagonist (Her).
  It's not like animated movies still exist where non-human protagonists are the main characters (Monsters Inc, HTTYD 2)
  Yet movies continue to come out like Chappie so forth, that stretches the definition of humans and what we are doing.

  So again, I disagree with your statement that movies that do not have human main characters or are all about humans are generally more well received than movies that do not. I really you don't have much basis to say these things about the entertainment industry, I mean, wheres your evidence that proves the media hates movies that represent humans as bad and non-humans as good? You make these statements, like "Pokemon white and black does this", but Sytex already basically disproved that point, so that's very shaky evidence. Meanwhile, I just gave 13 examples that disprove your point and I bet you'll kind of just wash over it xD

  So let us stop making over-arching statements, instead of saying "X does Y", try to give as much evidence as possible that shows that X does indeed do Y.

[BennyJackdaw]

[stuff]
I've seen it a LOT more than most people have.

That, to be blunt implies:

A ) Deliberately seeking the media to confirm your biases

B ) Extreme coincidence

Also you need to remember, there are more villains than heroes in media, and so all groups look disproportionately villainous: all big corporations are evil (A lot of things set in modern day America, or almost anything in a dystopian future, have this as a major theme), all governments are corrupt from the ground up, most scientists care nothing for morality (those that do are bumbling idiots), The police who are not corrupt are incompetent, most poor people are committing crimes, the rich are all assholes.

I can give evidence for ANY of those claims and can clearly show examples that "Prove" that these facts are displayed in popular media, and paint all groups involved in a bad light.

The point is Villains MUST be more numerous than heroes, as one hero goes through a lot of villains, that's why it looks like these groups are being bashed if you go looking for it.

looking at your specific "Target" Well intentioned extremists make for interesting villains and nature is an easy place to go with that. It effects everyone, and is in part caused by everyone, and it can lead to interesting villain designs. making an interesting environmentally friendly hero on the other hand is very tricky without.... well... making captain planet. ultimately though, note the "Well intentioned" part at the start of this paragraph, most depictions I see of this stereotype constantly hammer home that the villain is God-damn RIGHT!

Except I NEVER see animal lovers or activists actually portrayed in a good light anymore. In addition, I see quite a bit of media where the "hero" is a hunter. The fact that the main character in The Hunger Games hunts for a living ruins the entire story for me, I can NOT accept a hunter as a hero. Sue me. And yes, I know why she hunts. She does it to feed her family and yadda-yadda-yadda, but it's not why she hunts that pisses me off, it's that I'm sick and tired of seeing animal lovers portrayed as evil, while animal killers are "heroes."

I'll admit, it might just be me and I look for it more than most people do, but still, it feels like I see anti-environmental messages and pro-"humans are the absolute good" messages a lot.

A self-confirming statement, the reason you see more "humans are the absolute good" messages much more than most people is the fact that you actively look for them. For example, the movies and games you suggested.

Pokemon: I've never played the specific game you're referring to, but I do know one of the primary antagonists in the pokemon universe is Team Rocket, who in the lore act as pokemon poachers. IE: The main bad guys in most pokemon games are people who are abusing pokemon, not people who love pokemon and nature. I have no idea about the world ends with you.

While "The Grey" does depict wolves as the primary antagonist, the movie makes a point that the reason the wolves are attacking is because the humans are in their territory, not because they are inherently humans. Also a lot of the humans within that movie do acts that would not be considered good and these acts are highlighted, including robbing dead bodies.

I still think you are over-generalizing humans as a whole and separating yourself from the rest of the species, which is bad for reasons I've stated before.

In the older games, yes, the main villains were NOT animal lovers. This mostly started in Black and White, and somewhat continued in X and Y. Lysandre isn't an outright animal lover, but he is a generic misanthrope stereotype. Ruby and Sapphire also have environmentalist-themed villains, but they're more or less rivals who only care about SOME animals rather than all.

Whether I'm exagerating or not, one thing I DO know is that movies and forms of media that DO actually have non-human protagonists are almost NEVER well received anymore. Name something in the last three years that has non-human goodguys in them that is actually good. (And no, elves, dwarves and hobbits don't count as non-humans.)

Not really. Even when people are good hearted, there are still ways we are all contributing to this planet's destruction. I mean, what am I typing  this message with right now? A computer that uses lot's of energy, probably from a power plant that emits lots of smog and such. Some people buy lots of plastic products that end up in landfills and such. We all do things that hurt the environment and we don't even know it. That's not to say we are bad for using the computer or buying plastic products, but it does show how hard it is for humans to live on planet Earth without some form of destruction, even when you don't try to be destructive. Yes, animals do have destructive capabilities, but in no way do they compare to ours.

Honestly, I'm sick and tired of people telling me "No, you mean THIS, not that. You are not allowed to hate humans! You MUST accept the things we do! We are misunderstood!" Just please shut up about this, okay? Until we as a species actually overcome our problems and actually shape up to make a better planet for life and everything, I will always dislike HUMANS, not SOME humans. It's not a "Black and White" statement, it's just seeing us as a whole.

edit: No, Team Plasma was still just a typical "animal lover demonization" BS. Even when people didn't know the true goals of Ghetsis, they were treated as a complete waste of oxygen. One character even DID call Team Plasma "A Waste of Oxygen." Plus, the big reveal just seemed like a cop-out for something else.

I think you're totally right, non-human characters protagonists are never well received.

  It's not like a movie that depicts aliens as the good guys and humans as the bad guys would ever have the largest financial box office of any movie ever made ever (Avatar),
  Nor is it possible that many animated features would have non-human protagonists and be well received (Finding Nemo, Monsters Inc, Little Mermaid, Bambi, Alpha & Omega, etc, etc, etc)
  Nor is it possible that non-human live-action movies about animal would be well received at all either (8 below, warhorse)
  Ah, but it is movies in the last 3 years that have non human protagonists that aren't well received, it's not like a movie would ever be nominated for an oscar that has a tiger as one of the protagonist (Life of Pi) or a FREAKIN OPERATING SYSTEM as a protagonist (Her).
  It's not like animated movies still exist where non-human protagonists are the main characters (Monsters Inc, HTTYD 2)
  Yet movies continue to come out like Chappie so forth, that stretches the definition of humans and what we are doing.

  So again, I disagree with your statement that movies that do not have human main characters or are all about humans are generally more well received than movies that do not. I really you don't have much basis to say these things about the entertainment industry, I mean, wheres your evidence that proves the media hates movies that represent humans as bad and non-humans as good? You make these statements, like "Pokemon white and black does this", but Sytex already basically disproved that point, so that's very shaky evidence. Meanwhile, I just gave 13 examples that disprove your point and I bet you'll kind of just wash over it xD

  So let us stop making over-arching statements, instead of saying "X does Y", try to give as much evidence as possible that shows that X does indeed do Y.

Avatar is actually widely hated, especially by "animal welfarists" and idiots who label it as "OMG MISANTHROPIC!"

Again, none of those are recent. Also, Alpha and Omega? Last time I checked, only Wolfaboos liked that movie.

Those were more about the people who owned particular animals than the animals themselves. Plus, they're not animal lovers in the sense they care about ALL animal life, mostly just their pets.

Technically the tiger in Life of Pi is fabricated, and is shown as a metaphor. Not sure how the second one counts.

I never said there weren't exceptions, I just said they rarely happen.

...Chappie was heavily slammed by critics. I don't know anyone who likes that movie.

Also, there are other forms of media than just movies. What about video games?