Athiest and non-religious Furs

[Angder]

This is a general discussion for Athiest and non-religious Furs on this forum

I personally am an Athiest, very heavily so. I don't just not believe in the god presented in the various holy books, I actually find many of them pretty... well bluntly unpleasant, the fact they DON'T exist is more comforting to me than the idea they do. Even if you proved one of the books was actually accurate I would probably still not worship him/her/it on principle.

This clip sums up most of my thoughts on the matter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo
((For those who can't see the video, its Stephen Fry talking about what he would do if he died, and met god. In short, he would call god cruel, and a maniac, and he would say it to gods face.))

So yea. Those are my thoughts on religion. Interested to see what else people have to say on the topic.


((Note I got permission from a moderator to re-create this))

[George]

I actually find many of them pretty... well bluntly unpleasant, the fact they DON'T exist is more comforting to me than the idea they do. Even if you proved one of the books was actually accurate I would probably still not worship him/her/it on principle.

I agree with this. A lot of gods are not the best people, to say the least. Immortality just to be tortured is in a lot of religions, and is that punishment warranted by anything? There's only so much suffering you can cause in one lifetime no matter how sick you are.

[Trixsie Vixen]

As a vixen goddess, I feel like I'm in an awkward position regarding this issue.

[Angder]

First of all, let's make one thing clear: It's "atheist" and not "athiest".

The Gods as presented in many Holy Books (especially the Bible and Quran) are actually the most benevolent and generous beings ever. Have you actually read the New Testament...

Not true, you must remember if you believe the holy books, (and religion in general) The gods, or their close supporters, WROTE the holy books. Your effectively reading their own accounts. Second of all even in the New testment, questionable things are presented as absolute good, third of all, how can you trust ANY of it is true? Third of all. The old testament. Everything in it. Also the word of god. It includes such gems as him flooding the entire world because of a few bad people, and murdering several 100 Egyptian children. And if I am not meant to look there any more, then why is it still in the same book? If its not meant to be read, then why was it written? has god changed? If he is now a being of pure good, why does he claim to be perfect, and then ignore the evil things people say he did?

Finally, If I wrote a book saying I was perfect, then gave clear evidence that was not the case, people would say I was being a gigantic ass. Why should we treat god any different? Also, why doesnt he tell all the terrorists to stop, or the westborogh baptists they are assholes? Instead, if he exists, he sits back, watches, judges, but does nothing. That is neutral at best, and certainly not worthy of worship

[MrRazot]

I just want to call on the argument often used largely by Christians where they draw a circle and claim that it is all of human knowledge. They then continue to draw a larger circle around and say that this is all the possible knowledge in the universe.
from there they question, that in this larger circle, whether or not it's possible that somewhere in there that the knowledge exists that proves there is a god. However there's nothing saying that within the larger circle of knowledge, that there isn't proof that god certainly doesn't exist.


Also want to point out that the Christian god in the old testament is far from kind and generous, killing thousands and bringing wrath to many more. Which testament is the right one? You also need to look beyond just Christianity, Judaism and Islam here. The Hindus certainly have a completely different take on all of this while seriously out dating any other religion with history going back as potentially far back as 30,000BCE.


I however don't have too much of a problem with any god.
It's the damn fan-club (though dare I say they've gotten better as of late (much less genocides and stonings)).

[MrRazot]

I just want to say that I love the take on gods by the Greeks, Romans, Norse, Egyptians, Hindus and Japanese among others.
All of them have amazing stories of different gods interacting with each other and having their own struggles and dramas within their own kingdoms.

[Angder]

I was specifically refering to Christianity and Islam, the two which I know. Hinduism, Buddism, seem much nicer.

Returning to Christianity for a second, to call the old testament Void reeks to me of god ignoring his own past sins. In addition, I would argue that if you say god exists, YOU HAVE to take into account his apparent absence in recent history. Hence, he would be a colossal ass at best. If he existed as written, and this was still just after the book was written up, then sure, I would be much cooler with him, but as of now, he has allowed his name to be used by racist, bigots, terrorists, and to cover all manner of other crimes. That cannot be ignored.

As for the new testament, I would have to go reread through it again, its been a while, and I am not really willing to right now. I will say Jesus himself seemed fine most of the time.
((Though even that varies depending on version))

[Grovygrunge]

That is not a problem of God, but of the people using his name. An abstract entity, no matter how powerful and all-knowing, is not responsible for people using his name to defend their racist, bigot and whatever positions. Because of, you know, free will. At least in christian religion.

But if such a god really existed he wouldn't let people like that exist in the first place. Or would he? In the end it really boils down to the concept of free will, again.

Christian philosphy is incredibly interesting and intelligent. Especially on this topic.

I disagree completely. A truly All-loving God would, as he has done in the past apparently, overlook his thing about free will to stop people causing harm. A truly benevolent creator would not allow suffering if they could prevent it, no matter how necessary it may be, as a being truly loving to all beings just could not bring itself to allow such things, it wouldn't make sense. Therefore I feel, not choose to feel just straight up feel, that the God of Christianity, Islam and Judaism is either an uncaring douche, or not as all powerful as he wants people to believe he is. I see the way he is said to exist as impossible for one being and therefore physically cannot believe in him at all.

Due to the reasons that should be apparent I see the "free will" argument as nothing more than a cop out when it comes to this topic.

No problem with those who do though of course, if they aren't a dick about it.

[Angder]

If he existed as written, and this was still just after the book was written up, then sure, I would be much cooler with him, but as of now, he has allowed his name to be used by racist, bigots, terrorists, and to cover all manner of other crimes. That cannot be ignored.

As for the new testament, I would have to go reread through it again, its been a while, and I am not really willing to right now. I will say Jesus himself seemed fine most of the time.
((Though even that varies depending on version))

That is not a problem of God, but of the people using his name. An abstract entity, no matter how powerful and all-knowing, is not responsible for people using his name to defend their racist, bigot and whatever positions. Because of, you know, free will. At least in christian religion.

But if such a god really existed he wouldn't let people like that exist in the first place. Or would he? In the end it really boils down to the concept of free will, again.

Christian philosphy is incredibly interesting and intelligent. Especially on this topic.

I would agree if these were people screaming "FOR SPAGETTI!" or "FOR RANDOM" or "IN THE NAME OF THE KING" but these people are using HIS name, they are explaining themselves as being justified under HIS statements. Its the equivalent of a troll coming on TFF with my account, me being told about it, and choosing not to inform people "Dude, its a troll, not me."

second of all, most people agree hell is some kind of tortured existence, if that is the case then I would argue Gods "free will" is a myth, its "Do as I say or I beat you with a stick". True, under the traditional meaning Hell is just "without god" and with that, its less of an issue, but under the Fire and brimstone definition, that's not free will, that's press-ganging and threatening, and even if its not the truth, god lets the other definition be pushed, once again, in his name.

[Grovygrunge]

I'd like to say that my stance is, obviously, atheistic and possibly even anti-theist, as I would certainly not accept the existence of God even if he appeared before me and called me an idiot. Sure, I'd admit he's real, but I'd just consider him an ass and most likely rebel against his will because "screw you dad"

[Dexter Dare]

I just want to say that I love the take on gods by the Greeks, Romans, Norse, Egyptians, Hindus and Japanese among others.
All of them have amazing stories of different gods interacting with each other and having their own struggles and dramas within their own kingdoms.

i agree the greek, roman and norse gods are a lot more interesting (i dont know much about the others) but i like how they knew that the gods weren't perfect.

[The Past]

The issue I have with the Abrahamic god is the "perfect being" thing. Such as how the bible has to keep reiterating the "God is good" phrase everywhere.
It would be one thing if the flaws weren't completely ignored. I can get behind a god being flawed but not in denial about it, if one existed.

I know it will be mentioned at some point (if it hasn't already), but the reason why atheists talk mostly about Christianity is because it's the religion that left the most impact in the society most atheists come from. It's something they are most exposed to, and most atheists (who can actually speak their mind without getting beheaded) come from a Christian background themselves, so the flaws in the belief are glaringly obvious to them.

As for the concept of gods in general, my disbelief isn't just from lack of proof, but based on what I know about human cognition.
Gods at their base are personifications of natural forces, with traits we as humans are familiar with, as an attempt to understand them. The human mind is all we know, and so we look at the world from our angle. It's also comforting to some people that there is someone keeping control of the world that they can communicate with to some degree, that people can have a little control over how things happen in their day to day life by asking that someone and doing favors for them. Over time that ideal got rolled up in a lot of political agenda and whatnot.

I believe, if there is a higher power or multiple powers that control the universe in the fashion a god would, they're not beings that think but forces that act. But if there really are gods, they most likely aren't of a specific religion.


On a side note, one thing that annoys me is when some atheists get angry about stories inspired by Christian and Jewish tales when they're perfectly fine with ones inspired by Greek gods, for example. Mythology is mythology. If you're inspired by a story from any religion, "dead" or not, it's fair game. Not every mythology-inspired story is trying to beat a "CONVERT NOW" bat against your head.