Windows 10! Good or Bad?

[Obey138 (Matthew "Fluffy")]

I'm still awaiting in the reservation process but I think it could be a good OS... But until I don't have it, I don't know

You can force update, using tool from here

[EchoesAbove]

I actually do believe what my local IT-people tell me.
Currently there doesn't seem to be any reason to upgrade. I'd rather install it later and have all the little issues solved than possibly loose days because I installed and then deinstalled it. The list of issues there seem to be is long enough :I If asked for I can try to translate and paste them over here too as I am natively speaking german.

[VoodooMax]

I might mention that there is a Go back to Windows 7/8 button in Settings > Update & Security > Recovery.

This feature will work for a full month after updating for as long as you don't delete the Windows.old folder.

I will stick to Windows 7 for a long while. If it works, don't fix it. I am worried about Microsoft doing something stupid and making the OS inoperable after an update. Also, tons of privacy issues apparently. It is almost like giving the keys of your PC to Microsoft.

Try seeing Windows 10 not as a "fix" but as an improvement over what was already good. There's a LOT of things that are better such as bootup times being insanely fast no matter what drive you're using and game performance being quite a lot better. Even older games seem to gain several few FPS compared to Windows 7.
The privacy issues aren't as bad as people make it out to be, it isn't worse than that of say Google, Apple or Youtube. The difference is that Microsoft is being fairly open about it and gives you checkboxes to turn everything off. Right after updating it'll ask you to set a few settings. Make sure to click "Customize settings" instead of "Use Express Settings" and turn off anything that you feel is bad for your privacy. Even after that you can also change whatever you'd like in the Settings-menu!

I completely agree, Windows 7 (In my opinion) is the most stable build of Windows. Windows 8 and 8.1 was a complete disaster so I'll stick to Windows 7 until Microsoft forces me to upgrade.

How come? I know Windows 8 had a few issues for the first few weeks but they were all fixed pretty quickly. Did you actually give Win 8 a try and for how long? Because it's not really that bad once you actually use it.. Like sure the whole Metro thing can be debated but if you disregard that one detail 8 was a significant improvement over Windows 7 in terms of details and under-the-hood; The whole kernel is much faster and better making it faster and more responsive than Windows 7 ever was, the Task Manager is reworked and much better and more useful, the progress box that comes up when copying or moving files shows is way better and overall the experience when copying or moving files is much much better (clicking "more info" actually shows more information!), multi-monitor support is another massive improvement too, for example.

All of these well-appreciated improvements Windows 8 brought has been carried over to Windows 10 whilst the things that Windows 8 was criticized for has been resolved and thus I would personally say Windows 10 is the best of both worlds between Windows 7 and Windows 8.

Well, that's just my thoughts anyhow, feel free to disagree but I'm sure updating won't suddenly make your PC explode. It's better than Windows 8 but is similar enough under the hood that essentially anything that worked with Windows 8.1 should work fine in Windows 10 as well!

Windows 8 didn't have the start menu and instead of a list of options, they make the whole screen the start menu. Nothing is where you want it and it's a pain to cycle between something you're doing and the full screen start menu. Windows 8.1 has the same problems and even more as they brought back the start button but not the menu which makes little sense. Windows 10 combines the god-awful Windows 8 with Windows 7 plus it's more open which makes it easier to breach and that means privacy is a huge issue. Even with all of the settings to share data are disabled. 

[Timmy Fox]

Windows 8 didn't have the start menu and instead of a list of options, they make the whole screen the start menu. Nothing is where you want it and it's a pain to cycle between something you're doing and the full screen start menu. Windows 8.1 has the same problems and even more as they brought back the start button but not the menu which makes little sense. Windows 10 combines the god-awful Windows 8 with Windows 7 plus it's more open which makes it easier to breach and that means privacy is a huge issue. Even with all of the settings to share data are disabled.

But my point is, if you disregard that one interface change, Windows 8 brought tons on really good and well needed improvements. Apart from the aforementioned improvementss there's also UEFI support which help not only with dramatically increasing boot times but also system stability and motherboard features support as well as better SSD support which helps your SSD run fast and not lose performance over time and also last longer due to less wear of the NAND. The list could go on forever.

Windows 8 wasn't "good awful", it was a really good OS with an ugly shell. Like a great book that got judged too much by its cover and slightly bad page layout.
Windows 10 took all those great things from Windows 8 and polished the surface to make it a more enjoyable experience.

[EchoesAbove]

Windows 8 didn't have the start menu and instead of a list of options, they make the whole screen the start menu. Nothing is where you want it and it's a pain to cycle between something you're doing and the full screen start menu. Windows 8.1 has the same problems and even more as they brought back the start button but not the menu which makes little sense. Windows 10 combines the god-awful Windows 8 with Windows 7 plus it's more open which makes it easier to breach and that means privacy is a huge issue. Even with all of the settings to share data are disabled.

Especially since Updates now are P2P shareable. It's only a question of time when compromised updates are shared. Why try to get people to install malware by clicking links in their emails if you can just stick it into the Updates everyone so willingly installs?
Also, related comic in case someone says it's well encrypted:

edit: Forgot to add the source. https://xkcd.com/538/

[Timmy Fox]

Especially since Updates now are P2P shareable. It's only a question of time when compromised updates are shared. Why try to get people to install malware by clicking links in their emails if you can just stick it into the Updates everyone so willingly installs?
Also, related comic in case someone says it's well encrypted:

edit: Forgot to add the source. https://xkcd.com/538/

That isn't necessarily as big of a concern as it's made out to be;
First and foremost you can change the settings between full p2p, only use p2p within the local network or don't use it at all.

Secondly, I'm sure they've thought of the security so I'm sure that it's all verified against a trusted server at the very least using checksums to ensure the update files are valid and only the proper files are downloaded. Torrents seem to manage just fine ensuring nothing but the specified files are downloaded.

Also, this is a technology used more commonly then you may be aware; P2P updates are used in quite a few games to more efficiently distribute updates, MOBA's and MMO's especially. It's also used by a few cloud storage services like Dropbox - Both locally to speed up syncing files between your own devices connected to the same network (Dropbox calls this "LAN sync") as well as universally to prevent uploading duplicates of a file more times than is necessary.

Sure it's possible, but so long they have a decent method of preventing someone from just putting a random file in their upload folder and have it be distributed as an update it'd probably be easier to hack into Microsoft's update servers and upload the malicious code that way and have it be distributed to any Windows version (not just 10).

[Obey138 (Matthew "Fluffy")]

Windows 8 didn't have the start menu and instead of a list of options, they make the whole screen the start menu. Nothing is where you want it and it's a pain to cycle between something you're doing and the full screen start menu. Windows 8.1 has the same problems and even more as they brought back the start button but not the menu which makes little sense. Windows 10 combines the god-awful Windows 8 with Windows 7 plus it's more open which makes it easier to breach and that means privacy is a huge issue. Even with all of the settings to share data are disabled.

Especially since Updates now are P2P shareable. It's only a question of time when compromised updates are shared. Why try to get people to install malware by clicking links in their emails if you can just stick it into the Updates everyone so willingly installs?
Also, related comic in case someone says it's well encrypted:

edit: Forgot to add the source. https://xkcd.com/538/

Checksums sent from MS server, to check them up after download.

[VoodooMax]

Windows 8 didn't have the start menu and instead of a list of options, they make the whole screen the start menu. Nothing is where you want it and it's a pain to cycle between something you're doing and the full screen start menu. Windows 8.1 has the same problems and even more as they brought back the start button but not the menu which makes little sense. Windows 10 combines the god-awful Windows 8 with Windows 7 plus it's more open which makes it easier to breach and that means privacy is a huge issue. Even with all of the settings to share data are disabled.

But my point is, if you disregard that one interface change, Windows 8 brought tons on really good and well needed improvements. Apart from the aforementioned improvementss there's also UEFI support which help not only with dramatically increasing boot times but also system stability and motherboard features support as well as better SSD support which helps your SSD run fast and not lose performance over time and also last longer due to less wear of the NAND. The list could go on forever.

Windows 8 wasn't "good awful", it was a really good OS with an ugly shell. Like a great book that got judged too much by its cover and slightly bad page layout.
Windows 10 took all those great things from Windows 8 and polished the surface to make it a more enjoyable experience.

Maybe if you look at it that way, I just found it inconvenient to use overall, plus  I like Windows 7 better. This is my opinion though

Post Merge: August 06, 2015, 04:03:28 PM

Windows 8 didn't have the start menu and instead of a list of options, they make the whole screen the start menu. Nothing is where you want it and it's a pain to cycle between something you're doing and the full screen start menu. Windows 8.1 has the same problems and even more as they brought back the start button but not the menu which makes little sense. Windows 10 combines the god-awful Windows 8 with Windows 7 plus it's more open which makes it easier to breach and that means privacy is a huge issue. Even with all of the settings to share data are disabled.

Especially since Updates now are P2P shareable. It's only a question of time when compromised updates are shared. Why try to get people to install malware by clicking links in their emails if you can just stick it into the Updates everyone so willingly installs?
Also, related comic in case someone says it's well encrypted:

edit: Forgot to add the source. https://xkcd.com/538/

I know! Microsoft wants us to use their compromised OS so they can gain more user data and share it with 3rd party's for the sake of making more money at the cost of their customer's privacy, security and overall safety. Microsoft is getting real shady and greedy even more so then they already are.

[Timmy Fox]

I know! Microsoft wants us to use their compromised OS so they can gain more user data and share it with 3rd party's for the sake of making more money at the cost of their customer's privacy, security and overall safety. Microsoft is getting real shady and greedy even more so then they already are.

You think Microsoft is the only one?

This was all already happening with Windows 7 and Windows 8. Google is doing the exact same with Youtube and anything you search for as well as Android phones. Apple is doing the same with iPhones and iPads etc..

This is something that's happening quite widespread and isn't necessarily to make money. A lot of it is research and advertising (data on how you use various products to get feedback on how to improve said product and data on what you like so advertisers can show you ads you are more likely to click). But, mostly behind closed doors, there's also government involvement certain data collection going on (if you've heard of the NSA for example, Edward Snowden perhaps?).

The key difference here is that with Windows 10, Microsoft is being more open than they have been before with what data they collect (and also allow you to disable this). So unlike a lot of others where we only know through data leaks and people giving out information what they are doing, Microsoft is being more straightforward and actually telling you. It's not a new thing they've started just now, they've just admitted that they are doing it.

If you wanna call that shady, sure, but I would rather consider it the opposite that they are admitting to the shady business they've been doing and are now more open with it. There's still things we probably don't know about but it's a step in the right direction I'd say.

[Nrein]

Not to mention it's not like they're screening your personal conversations on Facebook or browsing your [explicit] folder.

For me, I say let them do what they're doing. In the places they're looking, I've got nothing to hide. There are credit card companies and search engines that I'm more afraid of than Microsoft :v

It's a good,  *free* OS.

Hell, the best thing you can at least do is install it while it's free, then create a Win 10 installation media, then roll back to your old Windows. Now you have a permanent copy of Windows 10 linked to your system, that you can install once you're done worrying about them, or at least once your new aluminum foil hat is ready.

[George]

best thing you can at least do is install it while it's free, then create a Win 10 installation media, then roll back to your old Windows. Now you have a permanent copy of Windows 10 linked to your system

That's a pretty good idea, though

 new aluminum foil hat is ready.

is a pretty good bad way to convince someone you're worth listening to. Some people just don't like the idea of being watched all the time, even if they have nothing to hide.

[Nrein]

best thing you can at least do is install it while it's free, then create a Win 10 installation media, then roll back to your old Windows. Now you have a permanent copy of Windows 10 linked to your system

That's a pretty good idea, though

 new aluminum foil hat is ready.

is a pretty good bad way to convince someone you're worth listening to. Some people just don't like the idea of being watched all the time, even if they have nothing to hide.

Worth enough to be replied to anyway! I like to assume that means its getting a crossed one way or another

[VoodooMax]

I know! Microsoft wants us to use their compromised OS so they can gain more user data and share it with 3rd party's for the sake of making more money at the cost of their customer's privacy, security and overall safety. Microsoft is getting real shady and greedy even more so then they already are.

You think Microsoft is the only one?

This was all already happening with Windows 7 and Windows 8. Google is doing the exact same with Youtube and anything you search for as well as Android phones. Apple is doing the same with iPhones and iPads etc..

This is something that's happening quite widespread and isn't necessarily to make money. A lot of it is research and advertising (data on how you use various products to get feedback on how to improve said product and data on what you like so advertisers can show you ads you are more likely to click). But, mostly behind closed doors, there's also government involvement certain data collection going on (if you've heard of the NSA for example, Edward Snowden perhaps?).

The key difference here is that with Windows 10, Microsoft is being more open than they have been before with what data they collect (and also allow you to disable this). So unlike a lot of others where we only know through data leaks and people giving out information what they are doing, Microsoft is being more straightforward and actually telling you. It's not a new thing they've started just now, they've just admitted that they are doing it.

If you wanna call that shady, sure, but I would rather consider it the opposite that they are admitting to the shady business they've been doing and are now more open with it. There's still things we probably don't know about but it's a step in the right direction I'd say.

I'm fully aware that other companies share user data for profit, google does it to target ads based on what you look up online, Microsoft on the other hand, does it for pure profit. Microsoft doesn't target ads or anything they just are making money off of people's lives. other companies do this too and I'm not denying that, but since we're talking about a Microsoft product I thought it was only relevant to the topic.

[Timmy Fox]

I'm fully aware that other companies share user data for profit, google does it to target ads based on what you look up online, Microsoft on the other hand, does it for pure profit. Microsoft doesn't target ads or anything they just are making money off of people's lives. other companies do this too and I'm not denying that, but since we're talking about a Microsoft product I thought it was only relevant to the topic.

Yeah, I'm not saying I agree to this type of behaviour or that it's justified. I'm just saying it's something that's been going on for a while and isn't just something to attribute to Windows 10 as not only do other companies do the same thing but Microsoft was already doing it with Windows 7 (and further back) so I wouldn't really consider that a reason not to upgrade.. Rather on the plus side Microsoft has made several statements regarding this and have included more control to disable it compared to previous versions, so shouldn't that be considered a step in the right direction?

[George]

Worth enough to be replied to anyway! I like to assume that means its getting across one way or another

Yeah, yeah, just saying it isn't helpful to be rude with your advice. Makes it tempting to completely disregard it whether it's valid advice or not.

Anyway, Timmy makes good points. Using the Internet at all means you've probably got hella trackers unless you're paranoid enough to use proxies and encryption 100% of the time. What makes your 0S so different? It's not exactly a fun thought, but it's certainly nothing new.