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Author Topic: Classical Music!  (Read 3156 times)

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Offline Trixsie Vixen

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Re: Classical Music!
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2014, 03:56:26 PM »
I guess I'm a bit "in the middle".  When Beethoven uses a dominant 7th chord *swoons* I don't hear imperfection just passion.  But when Art Tatum solos I don't hear his amazing technique and subtle harmonic sensibilities I just think "where did the melody go?" which is why I like trad jazz most I guess.


Here's a favourite piece of my friend.  The one who dislikes Mozart.  Quite suitable since it is now Spring here in Australia!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGFRwKQqbk4

Offline Kozy

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Re: Classical Music!
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2014, 07:25:10 PM »
Classical was about being the highest class in everything, the minimalism of Mozart was very Baroque and marked legacy rather than prime. He was literally like Justin Bieber, applying ideas with the same details everywhere. You hear one Mozart piece and you've heard them all. His most unique piece was his Requiem. Mozart was a servant, he happened to write music, people would hire him out of spite and jealousy a lot of the time especially as this actually made him famous for the time.

Beethoven wasn't romantic (romantic doesn't mean love here by the way, it means personal emotion) at all and classical music was about not being romantic, classical was all about being up their with the church's godliness, Baroque influenced musicians were class in another sense as in snobbiness. Classical music and art rejected church idealism for realist mysticism, if you see the paintings at the time you will notice the pictures were far more representational of god-on-Earth mentality which is poetic. People identified incidence with this poetry, which later founded the symphonic poetry in the mid 19th century which had already taken form in opera which was full of modulation. Classical begins in 1750 with Antonio Soler marking the transition with his Quintet 3 in G major which sounded like a blend of Baroque and Classical.

Muzio Clementi and Beethoven were truly the heralders of the classical music in time, full of rhythm and grandeur than monotonous notes. Bach had already revived Baroque but in a more pleasant way, Mozart would only provide traditional baroque for the sentimental rich. Beethoven's last two pieces were romantic only, founding into life like (timing to breath, to march, representing nature with instruments, etc) rhythm and detail.

Also, the term "perfect music" doesn't exist now nor do it then.
Medieval - musical ideal is relaxing, choral yet gigue like
Renaissance - musical ideal is foreboding choral and the church atmosphere
Baroque - musical ideal is to sound graceful and courtly
Classical - musical ideal is to initiate a dialog with god by demonstrating the best of the best and massive
Romantic - musical ideal is to initiate a dialog with the inner self and the universe, to not share emotion but to use musical representation of the emotions to take the soul on a journey

It helps to understand it you understand Christian history. Though the fact that so many before Mozart sounded like him shows there was nothing truly special about him but the fact he happened to become the most famous. Kind of like Shakespeare, the French for examples rejected Shakespeare because they already had a lot like him and he stood nothing against historical titans, it wasn't until romantic times people used him in classical art/music. I would say that Mozart is the prime reason most don't explore classical that deeply.

Offline Trixsie Vixen

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Re: Classical Music!
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2014, 08:16:50 PM »
Oh you're killing me here! XD


How can minimalism be baroque?  Baroque means to have exaggerated ornamentation.


Beethoven was uncontroversially in both periods, his Symphony 6 is considered to be the first true romantic piece.  But the transition was in his middle period with his later period being clearly post-transition.


I tend not to discuss it in TFF but church history and theology are a bit of a passion of mine, so I well understand the relationship of history of western music to the church.


"Perfect music" can't exist in the sense we normally think of, but music which embodies the ideals of Absolutism which fed the science, theology and art of the day is what I am referring to.


You will have to cite references if you are to sway me Kozy and as for Mozart being the Bieber of his day...


*staggers from a mortal wound*


Some things cannot be unsaid sir! ;)


I will admit there is a heap of his work which is pretty much interchangeable for me even though others adore those works.


Also here's dat Beethoven
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbfa86bTD34




Offline Kozy

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Re: Classical Music!
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2014, 08:37:35 PM »
Minimalism in traditional terms is the use of instruments with relatively little use of modulation and incidental dynamics as a hence it's more in your face and flat volumetrically than say romantic. Baroque can be played on a few instruments. The 6th symphony is not romantic and it was Beethoven's 3rd symphony that inspired romantic, in other words it is proto romantic in terms of instrumentation is not a representation. Pastoral was the founding of symphonic poetry so to speak but not romantic per se. Proto poetry already existed in opera.

I'm using iPod with tapatalk so links aren't possible right now. There's lectures on iTunes U which shouldn't be too hard to find, however. Though I don't say things for the fun of it, just there's far better and unsung composers far more influential than Mozart. The Bieber reference was because Mozart brought nothing new, least no more than Leopold.

Offline Trixsie Vixen

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Re: Classical Music!
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2014, 08:51:07 PM »
I still haven't tried out Tapatalk yet... once I start down that dark path will it forever dominate my destiny?


Maybe we can move to PM, lest we bore the music listeners XD


We all love Flight of the Bumble Bee right.


What about this version?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLZGr3CIAMA

Offline Kozy

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Re: Classical Music!
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2014, 09:22:28 PM »
I think trance music's supersaw synths sound more like bees than the flight of the bumblebee. The rhythm is far more sharp and wasp like don't you think? PM is ok.

Offline Trixsie Vixen

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Re: Classical Music!
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2014, 10:09:21 PM »
I'm not familiar with the super-synth, but it's funny you should mention, because as much as a like the piece I too never thought it very bumble beeish.  But earlier on I caught a little of the film Shine and the version in that I actually thought, wow that reminds me of bees!


Does anyone know PDQ Bach?  He's the creation of Peter Schickele.  Very clever and funny, but my favourite works are his quodlibets.


The first quodlibet I ever heard was his Eine Kleine Nichtmusik.  If you want to be able to listen to Mozart's Eine Kleine Nachtmusik again seriously don't listen to this...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enT9oAE0TxM

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Re: Classical Music!
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2014, 12:12:21 PM »
Debates about what period of music time was better for music aside

I enjoy Vivaldi's four seasons, but my person favourite one was Winter rather than summer, I suppose I'm more for minor pieces.
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Offline Trixsie Vixen

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Re: Classical Music!
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2014, 09:22:42 AM »
Bonus points if you know why I like this aside from its transcendent beauty.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv94m_S3QDo

 

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