I don't understand anymore...

[Aoren Deringer]

In my experience that happens quite often.
Once one group resorts to violence discussion usually ceases to be an option, and it's certainly popular to speed up deliberations...

[Tron Cat]

I used the quote because it would get the point across and it's true isn't it  one day man kind will end its self.

[Vine Tabris]

Quite the optimistic kid, eh?
But for most people, fighting isn't a normal part of their daily curriculum. Most people like to avoid physical fights unless they're the unfortunate victim of circumstance.
How many physical fights did you get into today?

[Tron Cat]

that may be true but just think of all the things in the world that could be different If everyone would just used simple conversion to set aside their differences and  come to a compromise. before anybody reply just sit back and think about all the thing that didn't have to happen.

[Vine Tabris]

That's neat and all, but you can't change the past, just learn from it.
If you don't want to fight, you don't have to. If you don't want everyone else to fight, well, good luck with that one, but it's unlikely; you can't expect the world to change for you or for anyone.
You can blare as many peaceful messages as you want, but to want everyone to change to your liking is a restriction of freedom, yeah? It's destructive, but they have free will; everyone thinks for themselves and decides what they want or what they want to fight for, to take that away would be a restriction of their free will. Ever read a little book called Clockwork Orange?
The short version: "When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man."
See? I can bring up quotes too.
Here's another one for ya': "Does God want goodness or the choice of goodness? Is a man who chooses to be bad perhaps in some way better than a man who has the good imposed upon him?"

[The Past]

That's neat and all, but you can't change the past, just learn from it.
If you don't want to fight, you don't have to. If you don't want everyone else to fight, well, good luck with that one, but it's unlikely; you can't expect the world to change for you or for anyone.
You can blare as many peaceful messages as you want, but to want everyone to change to your liking is a restriction of freedom, yeah? It's destructive, but they have free will; everyone thinks for themselves and decides what they want or what they want to fight for, to take that away would be a restriction of their free will. Ever read a little book called Clockwork Orange?
The short version: "When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man."
See? I can bring up quotes too.
Here's another one for ya': "Does God want goodness or the choice of goodness? Is a man who chooses to be bad perhaps in some way better than a man who has the good imposed upon him?"

*Gives Vine many epic cookies* ^^

[Mr.Fox]

They fight because they are stupid. They want to show that they are strong and immature. It will take time before one country do the first step, sit at a table and talk.

If they where furry with the humans, well they will fight each other for a reason.

If we where all furry, well I don't think that peace will be present. Its the desire of control, to dominate. We are stuck here and can't go anywhere to have peace. If peace was on the voting board, and every one ask for peace, maybe they will. Maybe. Until then. They other solution is to bit at the politicians and tell them that we want peace or we will trow them out. (Wish full thinking).

[Sne]

We may try to say it's not true, but we all know violence solves problems. Yes, it can make more. Yes, using it is a problem by itself. And yes, wanting or liking it is the worst of them. However, in some cases problems solved seem worth problems caused - and as groups of people in power almost always act cold and reasonable, and there's no room for inefficiency - fighting is the solution of choice. If the fighting is done for resources, well - one does not want to starve. But I think that reason is the good thing - as reason never puts violence as the first tool. Emotions are not reasonable and they are the most fundamental cause of it all. It seems that emotion is obviously wrong, but without hate there wouldn't be love, too. It's what makes us more than simple mechanisms.

One should look at the history of dictatorships - countries run by single men. Single men are affected by their emotions and personal biases etc. - if that single man hates something, it affects the whole country and hate leads to violence. Countries led by reasonable men or groups who are just too impersonal to be emotional have to protect themselves if the violence threatens them.

I hate to invoke politics and anger mr Godwin, but Hitler hated Jews and had some reasons for it; he had some opinions about humanity. He gathered people who thought similarly so it didn't made the government impersonal enough. Violence he started had to be stopped by violence in the end, and there was no way to reason with him, so it's not as easy as just sitting at a table and talking. Every side would have to agree with that.

And let's now take everyone into the account - if there are N people in the world and N-1 agree on peace, there will be still 1 person who sees the gain in violence and enacts it. Again, N should agree on peace and we know that if everyone would think the same way, we wouldn't be much different than mass-produced automata.

All in all, moralities, emotions and personalities make us sapient, but it comes with a price.

[___]

We may try to say it's not true, but we all know violence solves problems. Yes, it can make more. Yes, using it is a problem by itself. And yes, wanting or liking it is the worst of them. However, in some cases problems solved seem worth problems caused - and as groups of people in power almost always act cold and reasonable, and there's no room for inefficiency - fighting is the solution of choice. If the fighting is done for resources, well - one does not want to starve. But I think that reason is the good thing - as reason never puts violence as the first tool. Emotions are not reasonable and they are the most fundamental cause of it all. It seems that emotion is obviously wrong, but without hate there wouldn't be love, too. It's what makes us more than simple mechanisms.

One should look at the history of dictatorships - countries run by single men. Single men are affected by their emotions and personal biases etc. - if that single man hates something, it affects the whole country and hate leads to violence. Countries led by reasonable men or groups who are just too impersonal to be emotional have to protect themselves if the violence threatens them.

I hate to invoke politics and anger mr Godwin, but Hitler hated Jews and had some reasons for it; he had some opinions about humanity. He gathered people who thought similarly so it didn't made the government impersonal enough. Violence he started had to be stopped by violence in the end, and there was no way to reason with him, so it's not as easy as just sitting at a table and talking. Every side would have to agree with that.

And let's now take everyone into the account - if there are N people in the world and N-1 agree on peace, there will be still 1 person who sees the gain in violence and enacts it. Again, N should agree on peace and we know that if everyone would think the same way, we wouldn't be much different than mass-produced automata.

All in all, moralities, emotions and personalities make us sapient, but it comes with a price.

I never thought of it like that, but all of that's true.
(Applauds)

[Otebon Albrecht]

Sorry to jump in near the end of this discussion...


I have been reading and I have seen some very good positions created, opposed, and defended. I have also seen some magnificent points made. The only issue I have with this is that the original question was "Why do humans fight" or some variation thereof.


I agree with TheRedeemed (two posts above) and that view on violence. I am a Martial Artist and was always brought up to use my strength to defend those that cannot defend themselves. I was taught to be polite, kind-hearted, and respectful, but that does not preclude me (or inhibit me) from learning multiple ways to kill someone with a single hand.


Violence is a necessary part of human existence. Whether it was designed that way, randomly occurred that way, or became that way (as your religion or philosophy demands) the fact remains that violence is the way of life now. But it is not the source, it is the effect.


In my humble opinion, that source is that living creatures sustain, improve, and define themselves through conflict. Previously there was a post that spoke of "the need for dominance" (sorry, I am unable to quote as I do not really feel like digging for it, I apologize), and that cannot be more correct. In large creatures, like humans, it is necessary for a pecking order to be established. That hierarchy cannot be created through calm and quiet discussion (as much as I wish it could be), or even through heated intellectual debates that revealed who is more capable of leading. More and more often it comes down to who has the strongest arm or the largest army.


Sure violence has occurred in our past, but why was it deemed necessary? The drive for control, power, and dominance is all important to humanity.


Take it as you will.

[ArcticSkyWolf]

BWow, I haven't been in a fight for like almost two years now.

[___]

I've never been in a physical fight outside of my family. And even within my family, I could probably count it on my fingers. Just over stuff like comfortable laying spaces and whatnot.

[Aoren Deringer]

Uhm... How many physical conflicts have I been in? Too many to remember. Maybe it's the effect of circumstance and the fact that I tend to react negatively to people deliberately attempting to harm me or people in my immediate vicinity.
 
Anyway as my earlier statement of dominance suggested we are hardly any different, socially, from our tribal ancestors and their more disperse ancestors yet.

[Tron Cat]

Let just start by saying that i'm back and I'm here it put this thing to bed.
we are all different and we all handle things differently but that is why the world is so much fun to live in. With out some form of conflict life would be boring i see that now and we need conflict to help us grow. The forum its self shows that if anything. We all have different ideas and ways of learning and i wouldn't want any other way. Just remember haters gone hate.