Author Topic: Intolerant Tolerance  (Read 1057 times)

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Offline Bricket

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Intolerant Tolerance
« on: April 17, 2017, 11:51:37 PM »
Now I've pulled your attention with a cheecky title.

Does anyone know what we're doing anymore?
Anyone? No?
I thought so...

If you're wondering about what I'm talking: putting stickers on people, judging them black and white, Friend or Foe.

For some reason most of us started to think that we all would beat the evil, we would all win. All of us, but win what?
What can we battle for? What is at stake? Nothing is! Yet we all want to defeat evil, so what do we do? We see people with a different opinion as evil, and we want to beat them; Most of the time via a debate.
I've had this happening quite alot, examples enough: A friend talked about how rich people should be taxed more, I said no and suddenly he went beserk, and discussed in a manner that I was regarded as "the evil".

Now this was just in person, online this can become nasty. Death threats can be send out to those who oppose you, we don't care about what we say as long as we can hurt this person. I said something not popular, I made an error in a message and a person I respected oh so much just.... saw me as "less worthy"... and this hurts so much.

Why do we keep doing this? Why do we hate on those who have a different opinion? Why oh why do we want to be the "Victorers" we never should be?

Offline Albie

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Re: Intolerant Tolerance
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2017, 12:36:23 AM »
I can't speak for everyone, but if I feel a debate will turn into an argument then I have no need to continue.  Nobodies mind changes in an argument.  In fact they get defensive.  But I also do not believe in good and evil.  People are much more gray than that.
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Offline Alyzro

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Re: Intolerant Tolerance
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2017, 01:06:34 AM »
I think that's somewhat a result of ultra-devided, partisan politics (at least here in the US, and to some extent internationally). Everyone is so divided right now because our opinions have become so polarized for some reason, and unfortunately it seems like that's spilling over into even the more mundane conflicts.

More people need to be able to recognize that things, like Albie said, are more gray than [they realize].
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Offline Bricket

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Re: Intolerant Tolerance
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2017, 01:19:47 AM »
It's getting ridiculous.

Ask yourself this: have you avoided someone or refused a conversation just because they have a different political opinion?
Or just a different opinion in general?

Offline Albie

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Re: Intolerant Tolerance
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2017, 01:32:12 AM »
I never have unless it was a subject that I am unfamiliar with.  I have, however, stopped talking about my thoughts when I see it starts to upset others.
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Offline Alyzro

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Re: Intolerant Tolerance
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2017, 02:12:37 AM »
I try not to do that. I'm not a hard line conservative or liberal, and actually change my mind quite often. But I know plenty of people who will literally refuse to talk to people they know hold certain political views. And they're in high school. It really has gone way too far.
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Offline Captain Degenerate

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Re: Intolerant Tolerance
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2017, 05:04:57 PM »
I'm not really to conservative nor liberal.


But if I didn't have two brain cells to rub together I'd be a white nationalist the liberals say very few things I like anymore.


It's hard to choose a side when they seem all so against you for who you are.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 05:07:58 PM by Captain Degenerate »
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Re: Intolerant Tolerance
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2017, 08:57:54 PM »
It's easier to call someone a dipshit and call it day. I don't avoid talking to people just because they like different monkeys in suits. We just don't talk about politics and boom, it turns out they're not that evil and shitty. Good or bad is a matter of perspective and sometimes we make stupid mistakes. Some people think they're always right no matter what.

"online this can become nasty. Death threats can be send out [...]"
Oh shit, not the internet death threats. Someone will come to me from other country or continent to fist my face off because I don't agree with him. He's mad, he's fat and he has an authentic Japanese katana that he bought for 5 bucks. It's over. Tell your wife that I loved her. EUEUEEEGGH *gets killed by internet warrior lawyer hacker gangster*
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Offline anoni

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Re: Intolerant Tolerance
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2017, 06:04:52 PM »
The reason for this is simple, some political views make people angry, some opinions overall make people angry. Like, if you really like something and then someone says that anyone who likes it is in someway bad, you're generally gonna get a bit angry about that and will sorta disregard them, cause it's an opinion. When someone says your identity is bad, or you do something bad, then it can make you feel angry of course, and so people may lash out. It's all about retribution, it's people being angry and lashing out emotionally, it isn't really a logical thing. If you've never felt the want to lash out at anyone, then it might just mean there's nothing you care about enough to lash out.

  But, I always found that rehabilitation is a better and more constructive thing. See, people generally aren't really going to listen to adversary, when they see someone as an adversary agreeing with them means they lost, to their eyes, so they're less likely to agree. It's why heated arguments are so bad at convincing anyone of doing anything, we as humans have a pride, and we're so prideful we'd disregard things we'd normally regard in order to be victorious over our adversary. So what's the solution to this? Don't be adversarial!

  This means discuss, follow debate etiquitte and, IMO, most importantly, don't argue with your logic, argue with their logic. One thing I've always found, ask a lot of questions about someones point of view. If you ask questions, you're generally not considered an adversary, you're considered to be curious and inquisitive, hey they may think they can convert you to their way of thinking by answering these questions and, hey, maybe they can! But more importantly, the more detailed your questions, the more you hone into potential problems, the harder it is for them to answer the questions confidently, the more likely they are able to see flaws. They are using their own logic and they're finding inconsistencies, things they don't know, things they can't respond to. Things that make them think, and that's what you want. You won't convert them in that conversation, but if you have consistent conversations like this (again not being antagonistic) and put the seed of doubt into their minds, that's when they become susceptable to change.

  So in other words, you're right in that hostility does not make people change, in some cases it's counter productive, it makes people strengthen their original views. But the people who lash out aren't wanting that, they simply are angry, they have an emotional response because someone did something that emotionally affected them. They do not WANT those people to change, they just want to try to make people hurt. And while we can say this isn't the logical thing to do, because it isn't, it is an understandable thing to do. We've all done things our of emotion that have been counter productive, as humans we are imperfect, and anyone who says they've done something perfectly is lying (they may truly believe it themselves, but that's cognitive bias!). So yes, I'd support the idea of less rage against people with a different opinion (regardless of opinion) but I'd also be understanding in why there exists rage to start with.
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