Furkinis / male animal legs and the virtual content policy.

[ephemral]

I made this post in an IMVU usergroup for developers.

You can find the virtual content policy thread here. http://www.imvu.com/catalog/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpbb2&file=viewtopic.php&t=155240

My concerns are about this section and how it might apply to furkinis or male animal legs.

"Obvious intent and combination of products
Items submitted to the catalog are subject to penalty whether or not the violation is evident in the product description, provided images, or in combination with other items, if they violate this policy. Combination products, those that are broken into pieces and distributed as such, with the intent for re-assembly, as well as those with "hidden features", may be determined to be a TOS or this policy violation unless all of the following statements are true:

1. There is clearly a legitimate and normal use of each individual product that does not violate the TOS or this policy.
2. The primary or normal use of the individual product does not violate the TOS or this policy.
3. The provided product description and images do not suggest violations of the TOS or this policy, and the hidden features do not violate the TOS or this policy.
4. Each individual product is properly rated.
5. The whole constructed product does not violate the TOS or this policy. "

Even though most if not all "furkinis" I know of don't show any details like genitalia or nipples some might consider their
primary purpose is to circumvent the access pass. (not sure why this is even an issue seeing as how a Barbie doll, a toy for young girls, is more anatomically correct than the IMVU avatars.) Male animal legs have nothing to hide certain areas either and have been in the catalog how they are. I haven't heard any official word about either of these so it just makes me
a bit concerned considering I like both types of items as GA items. I don't mean to create any heated debate or trouble.
Sorry if this happens, and turns out to be a bad thing.

I'd like to hear the thoughts on this you may have.
{{I've temporarily moved any furkinis in my catalog to APO until I hear more on this.}}

The gist is people will see furkinis/male animal legs as a violation because their intent is to be worn with matching skins.
Thus a nude fur in G.A.. We know the furkinis and male animal legs do not show any adult content such as genitalia, but
this is the conundrum.

What are your thoughts about this. Think furkinis need to be APO instead of GA? Why?
And if you can't keep your reply civil, don't reply.

[Smitty the Airship Pirate]

         Although I agree with you Eph but the argument does have some points if this was meant to circumvent the access pass.  People whom bought the access pass might view this as
unfair ( though I do not see why ).  I think that as long as it shows no signs of explict content ( ie: breasts, genetalia ) it should not bring up arguments about it.

[Vosur Aekira]

Do either of you think I should bring this up with the Access Pass Council to see if this is something worth looking into?

I feel that if this may cause problems or confusion, then we need to have it clarified to prevent it.

[WingedZephyr]

I personally think furs/scalies, being the "animals" we are, have as much right to show our fur/scales just as animal in the natural world would. We essentially are turning ourselves into "pets" as much as we can. I know if we could have an avatar in the actual shape of an animal, many of us would use that. We don't "bypass the AP" just so we can be naked, and that's the point. I think if "skin-kinis" were made for normal human skins it would be different because humans are not typically unclothed and it has a much greater sexual connotation.

Another thing is that I've heard from a mesher that it is not possible to make the male animal legs compatible with bottoms, so making those APO would eliminate the legs from the general public entirely. And we all know the poor males of IMVU have little enough products to customize their avatar as it is.  :sniffle:

[ephemral]

Go ahead Vosur.
Just if you quote me make sure it's a complete quote.(or a link here)
I've already sent a private message to the home page of staff member robert to help get an official ruling on this.
Still waiting for a response though.

[Vosur Aekira]

Well eph... I didn't exactly quote it, but I did bring the matter up with the Access Pass Council with clarification. I hope to come back with some information to possibly help everyone here on this situation.

[EQINOX]

To me animal legs and furkinis ar not trying to bypass the access pass as that would imply they let you see the nipples or genatalia and these products do not do this and are simply there as accessorys to make your avi more animal like i meen if firkinis get banned then buy that defanition they would also have to ban standard bikinis as there is little difrence and also if they ban animal legs then thy would also have to ban all skin tight clothing be it trousers or underware as these look the same between the legs but are only a difrent colour

[Vosur Aekira]

And that's why I brought it up with the APC. I seriously doubt anything like that will be 'banned'... at most it would be put as Access Pass Only. I have not recieved word yet from the rest of the APC, but I'm still trying to find out what I can about the situation.

[EQINOX]

yeh but even moveing them to AP is still a step to far as like a already said they dont show any more than human bikinis or human male skin tight cloathing and there is far worse products out there that show more so im thinking is this simply the first atack on the furry comunity of imvu and there first steps to try and turn us furrys back into humans. is it just me or is imvu getting less fun every day as they bring in these chages i meen pritty soon we will all be covered up head to foot in 3 layers of heavy clothing unless we fall into the trap and do what they want us to do and that is to pay out $20 and get rhe AP.    something i refuse to do.

[Vosur Aekira]

Hey, if that happens I'll be causing quite the ruckus in the APC... you can count on that. I just plan on finding out what they think on that situation. If they think that bikinis made from fur is Access Pass Only, then they will have to redo the whole catalog due to the fact that there are more-revealing 'normal' bikinis out there.

[Smitty the Airship Pirate]

                      What I'm wondering is what would happen if we owned these items?  Will they simply be delted or will they lock it so we can't use it.  If so will they refund it or just simply apologize.

[Vosur Aekira]

I did get some clarification from other members of the APC... If the accessories added to a certain skin to give it a "Bugs Bunny"-like look, then it's General Audience. ((No 'parts' added to it.)) So matching Furkini/Skins or MaleAnthroLegs/Skins as long as no 'true nudity' is shown should still remain GA.

I will keep an eye on this topic so that I can keep everyone here up to date on it. If something does come up, I'll be sure to let everyone here know.

As for greatsmitty's question on if they did change to APO and he did own the item... Then you'd still have the item, but you cannot use it because you do not have an Access Pass.

[ephemral]

Thanks Vosur.

And if you own something that gets set to UFI you will get an automated refund.
From what has been said by staff and moderators on the IMVU forum.

*Goes to set furkinis back to GA.

[Vosur Aekira]

Do keep an eye on this place though Eph... and any other dev that works furkinis/scalekinis/featherkinis. Anything that I find out, I will bring here.

I actually feel like I have a purpose in being both Moderator here and APC member there.  :th_PyongLlora:  It's so good to find one's niche in experience.

Added: And thanks to several FF members, if it ever comes down to it... I have proof that the 'kinis need to stay GA. I'll need a bit more time for the legs though... I hope to get that soon.

[ephemral]

Well, I've always felt the furkinis and animal legs were perfectly OK.
It's kinda like how some artist draw clean furs without clothes.
Then they get bugged by people that still consider it nudity and stuff.
It's OK by DeviantArt's standards. The new content policy got a few worried because most like to err on the side of caution.
We all know furkinis are fine, but you have the existing knowledge of how people react on IMVU and flag stuff and how IMVU handles
certain situations. or lack of handling.

Keep us informed if anything comes up Vosur.