The Furry Forums
Furry Chat => Rants and Advice => Topic started by: 138 on February 09, 2016, 12:21:30 PM
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I'm sure many of you have seen this some where or have been insulted for being a furry or being in the furry fandom. It used to not bother me, but now it's really starting to get annoying. Next to the MLP fandom, I think the furry fandom is the second most hated one on the Internet. I can't go anywhere without seeing some sort of hate comment about it. Most of them include things like, furfag, kill yourself, cancer, animal **censor**, autistic, etc. I'm not sure where this unwarranted hatred comes from really, but I'm sick of it now. Probably no point in getting worked up about it but whatever. I guess the question is why do people hate the fandom so much?
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Something I have noticed: When you find a cringy/Annoying/perverted Furry it seems we have the worst of the Cringy/annoying/perverted things on the internet.
Also there is the fact that our porn is infamous due to the thin line between Yiff and Bestiality. Then you have the "Zoophile" stats for the fandom being amazingly high according to some sources (I vaguely remember being told its like 20%). AND THEN you have the furries who get caught on the news "Yiffing" in parking lots and similar things...
Put simply, there are a hell of a lot of legitimate reasons to hate SOME furries. and people are quick to generalize "some" to "all" because this is the internet.
Only advice I can give to people is to try to be a bunch of decent human beings, try not to let the hate get to you, and try to prove the stereotype False by generally being sensible and kind. :3
TLDR: People only see the bad part of the fandom. Not the good part.
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Maybe if furries wouldn't churn out enormous amounts of mega-kinky porn AND if they could keep themselves from posting it everywhere online for all to see then we wouldn't get so many strange looks. Yeah, consenting adults/private fantasies and all that, but once you show it off to other people you honestly have to accept that you are going to get some grief thrown your way, especially if it involves things not considered mainstream.
I mean, seriously, being into anthropomorphism is odd enough on its own. Making yourself seem stranger in comparison to other people is only going to make the target on your back that much larger.
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When you get down to it, it's just, unfourtunately, human instinct. People react to things they don't understand with hate and fear as a survival tactic. And though you can explain things to people so they can try to understand, not everyone wants to. And even if they do, it might give them more reasons to hate and fear, rather than to accept.
As an example, lets use the Holocaust. Generally, we're told that the Holocaust was a negative thing, through cultural references and such, even if you know literally nothing about it. Then you get to history class, or you have a history-buff friend who explains it to you, and you understand it. Doesn't mean that you've sided with the Nazis though.
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It's generally a loud minority that is heard over the quiet majority, which is sad.
As for the whole "all furries go to hell" thing, just use a line of scripture - "Do not judge, lest ye be judged" (Yeah, I'm a christian)
I'm not judging the Furries of the world - myself included - and I'm certainly not a model christian (working on that part). But if we're to influence the Furry fandom, we need to speak up and break the harsh stereotype that has been imposed on us.
I don't know who you are. But I will find you, and I will shed my fox fur all over you.
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After a decade of being a furry, I've never really experienced much hatred at all... I think I have twice, once on an online game and then once when the My Little Pony fandom booted up, from a brony. It really didn't phase me at all.
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I get a bit of hate from my friends by it's just all a joke really. They're not gonna do anything. What can they do, say mean words. Boo hoo. I'll go talk to someone else thanks 'mate'.
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I love how tumblr freaks out if you use the wrong pronouns but be furry and they will murder you. Can they really demand acceptance with accepting all
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I love how tumblr freaks out if you use the wrong pronouns but be furry and they will murder you. Can they really demand acceptance with accepting all
I've been on Tumblr for years and never had an issue, nor have I seen a person harassed.
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Furries get the most hate because furries react the best.
I actually have to change my steam picture before playing certain games because people call me out for being a furry xP
Bonus: How my buddy handles trolls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3lw-naWvL4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3lw-naWvL4)
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I have a slightly different issue.
I'm not concerned by people who want to judge the fandom; that's a matter of personal opinion (I'm perfectly NOT fine with judging anyone for anything though).
The trouble starts when I think about whether or not they'll judge me. That's the reason I keep so much stuff bottled up all the time - I don't know how people are going to react so I just don't tell anyone out of fear of judgement/rejection.
It's not a great place to be.
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I've had multiple furries literally surprised that I'm not into yiff, if that tells you anything. People are joining the fandom thinking it's entirely a fetish. It seems there's only a small portion that aren't in the fandom entirely for that now, and an even smaller portion not into it at all. The "only 10% of furries are yiffers" myth is full of crap, as far as I can tell. So many times people don't even bother to realize this is a PG-13 forum because they're so used to being able to flaunt their foxnoodle around on most furry sites, but once they do figure it out, they whine about it like they're oppressed.
Sorry if I sound bitter, but the perverted side of the fandom really grinds my gears. I personally have no problem with people enjoying yiff, but holy shit, people, when you get that obsessed with sex you need help. That goes if you're a furry or otherwise.
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You search furry art and go to images, you'll find yiff pretty fast. I mean it's generally disgusting personally. I haven't met any flurries 'like that' but that's because I haven't met any outside of these fourms. It's funny because I'm only 13 and a few of my mates said it terrified them. Disgusted I understand but terrified? Over reaction.
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Honestly, it should be expected to happen.
Something something rule 34.
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Something something rule 34.
Quote of the year right here.
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Maybe if furries wouldn't churn out enormous amounts of mega-kinky porn AND if they could keep themselves from posting it everywhere online for all to see then we wouldn't get so many strange looks. Yeah, consenting adults/private fantasies and all that, but once you show it off to other people you honestly have to accept that you are going to get some grief thrown your way, especially if it involves things not considered mainstream.
I mean, seriously, being into anthropomorphism is odd enough on its own. Making yourself seem stranger in comparison to other people is only going to make the target on your back that much larger.
I've had multiple furries literally surprised that I'm not into yiff, if that tells you anything. People are joining the fandom thinking it's entirely a fetish. It seems there's only a small portion that aren't in the fandom entirely for that now, and an even smaller portion not into it at all. The "only 10% of furries are yiffers" myth is full of crap, as far as I can tell. So many times people don't even bother to realize this is a PG-13 forum because they're so used to being able to flaunt their foxnoodle around on most furry sites, but once they do figure it out, they whine about it like they're oppressed.
Sorry if I sound bitter, but the perverted side of the fandom really grinds my gears. I personally have no problem with people enjoying yiff, but holy shit, people, when you get that obsessed with sex you need help. That goes if you're a furry or otherwise.
Are you two from the Fur Affinity Forums? Because your anti-furry BS sure makes it sound like it.
That's their problem if they want to hate you for looking at furry porn. I don't like it either, but it's not like it hurts anyone. What DOES hurt people is the excessive hate surrounding us. That's why whenever I hear "just ignore them," I want to bash that person with a club. Ignoring is just pretending it doesn't exist, but in the end, idiots will STILL hate you. Your life will still be hell. No amount of "ignoring" is going to help. People have resorted to just giving up everything they like and caving into "humans are absolute good" type media because of ***holes who want to make their lives hell for being a furry. So sorry, but "Ignore them" is something I just cannot do. I try to explain that being a furry just means you like anthropomorphic characters when I can, and if people treat me like dirt for being a furry, I treat them the same way. You may think I'm an ***hole for this, but in fact I try to be as nice as possible to most people. I just think some people don't warrant being nice to.
Someone needs to put something on the media that sets the record straight. I hope something like this happens soon.
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I actually look for comments against us. Not to rebuke them, but to try to figure out why they think that way and see if I can change their mind. If no one ever tries to figure them out and enlighten them, then how will they ever learn that we aren't a bunch of creeps? (Although I do go on the offense when I know for a fact they are a troll >:3)
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Maybe if furries wouldn't churn out enormous amounts of mega-kinky porn AND if they could keep themselves from posting it everywhere online for all to see then we wouldn't get so many strange looks. Yeah, consenting adults/private fantasies and all that, but once you show it off to other people you honestly have to accept that you are going to get some grief thrown your way, especially if it involves things not considered mainstream.
I mean, seriously, being into anthropomorphism is odd enough on its own. Making yourself seem stranger in comparison to other people is only going to make the target on your back that much larger.
I've had multiple furries literally surprised that I'm not into yiff, if that tells you anything. People are joining the fandom thinking it's entirely a fetish. It seems there's only a small portion that aren't in the fandom entirely for that now, and an even smaller portion not into it at all. The "only 10% of furries are yiffers" myth is full of crap, as far as I can tell. So many times people don't even bother to realize this is a PG-13 forum because they're so used to being able to flaunt their foxnoodle around on most furry sites, but once they do figure it out, they whine about it like they're oppressed.
Sorry if I sound bitter, but the perverted side of the fandom really grinds my gears. I personally have no problem with people enjoying yiff, but holy shit, people, when you get that obsessed with sex you need help. That goes if you're a furry or otherwise.
Are you two from the Fur Affinity Forums? Because your anti-furry BS sure makes it sound like it.
That's their problem if they want to hate you for looking at furry porn. I don't like it either, but it's not like it hurts anyone. What DOES hurt people is the excessive hate surrounding us. That's why whenever I hear "just ignore them," I want to bash that person with a club. Ignoring is just pretending it doesn't exist, but in the end, idiots will STILL hate you. Your life will still be hell. No amount of "ignoring" is going to help. People have resorted to just giving up everything they like and caving into "humans are absolute good" type media because of ***holes who want to make their lives hell for being a furry. So sorry, but "Ignore them" is something I just cannot do. I try to explain that being a furry just means you like anthropomorphic characters when I can, and if people treat me like dirt for being a furry, I treat them the same way. You may think I'm an ***hole for this, but in fact I try to be as nice as possible to most people. I just think some people don't warrant being nice to.
Someone needs to put something on the media that sets the record straight. I hope something like this happens soon.
Benny, I have several issues with what you've said here. The first being that you literally just called two furries "Anti furry". I mean just... think about that. That doesn't make sense. I mean can you read?
I'm sorry if I'm being offensive here but I just can't see where you got that impression from.
Also there have been multiple things in the media that tried to "set the record straight" also. Also I have noticed for a long while that "anti furry" stuff in the media is all but non existent. So really it's just internet trollers and haters. If you can't ignore those type of people that's a shame because they are never going away and you can't convince them they're wrong. Either cuz they don't believe what they're saying and find annoying you funny or because they don't care about what you have to say to begin with.
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Are you two from the Fur Affinity Forums? Because your anti-furry BS sure makes it sound like it.
Benny, I have several issues with what you've said here. The first being that you literally just called two furries "Anti furry". I mean just... think about that. That doesn't make sense. I mean can you read?
Fur Affinity Forums is chock full of ceaseless furry-deprecation to the extreme. I was almost going to say "I used to be a regular of FAF", but I don't think one could consider themselves a regular of a place if one couldn't even stand being there for a week. All the cool people on there are always the ones who constantly have to make some sort of 'joke' about how disgusting, perverted, and insane furries are. On there, forum posts can be liked, and the posts with the most likes are often ones that deride the fandom in some way. Maybe it's just a dumb running gag or something to them, but I didn't find it enjoyable to have to read all the time.
That said, I wouldn't say Halei-Helai or Evnamishko were exhibiting FAF-levels of anti-furry talk. Even though I myself am probably the particular kind of furry that the two of them wouldn't like, heheh..
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I don't go around talking shit about furries because I judge people on an individual basis, and I know plenty of respectful people in the fandom, but I'm not gonna turn a blind eye to the widespread "gross" side, especially when it has become the main recruiter, so to speak.
I don't even go on FA or the forums, personally. Mostly because of that side, and the mentioned negativity on there is another good reason to avoid it. I'm not a prude (and people who know me well are sure of that!), but I try to avoid people with a slimy fetish obsession they like to parade around. As I said:
That goes if you're a furry or otherwise.
It's not the furry part, or even the sexual part, it's the public flaunting of perversion. And unfortunately much of the people like that happen to be furries, which is why the fandom has that reputation, and that reputation attracts more people like that, and so on. It's a cycle of foxnoodle waggling.
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I don't go around talking shit about furries because I judge people on an individual basis, and I know plenty of respectful people in the fandom, but I'm not gonna turn a blind eye to the widespread "gross" side, especially when it has become the main recruiter, so to speak.
I don't even go on FA or the forums, personally. Mostly because of that side, and the mentioned negativity on there is another good reason to avoid it. I'm not a prude (and people who know me well are sure of that!), but I try to avoid people with a slimy fetish obsession they like to parade around. As I said:
That goes if you're a furry or otherwise.
It's not the furry part, or even the sexual part, it's the public flaunting of perversion. And unfortunately much of the people like that happen to be furries, which is why the fandom has that reputation, and that reputation attracts more people like that, and so on. It's a cycle of foxnoodle waggling.
I'm not saying there aren't some sick furries out there, but acting like "no, the stereotypes about us are 100% correct" will end up making it worse for the furries who aren't sick. In turn, it will ultimately destroy the fandom entirely if we just cave in to the perception of other people. So sorry I took offense at your comments, but I hate seeing furries being talked about so flippantly, even from other furries.
If you can't ignore those type of people that's a shame because they are never going away and you can't convince them they're wrong.
They never go away regardless. I've tried ignoring. I've tried it for years. Then I realized that "ignoring" is just something people tell you to make you weak. Plus, if you "ignore" them, then they get away with insulting you, and you've done nothing about it but just stand there and take the punishment. Basically, ignorance is just something people spread to give bullies the idea that they can be as mean and horrible as they want without consequence. THAT is why I hate "ignoring."
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Benny, on the topic of ignoring... You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about because you clearly have no idea what it means.
When people ignore bullies and haters, it just means they refuse to be offended by the attackers. And the proper way to handle it is to report it to someone with the power to force them to stop. You know, the smart thing to do? Making them not worth your time and whatnot? The only weak people are the ones who always get offended or can be so easily manipulated by a bully to be 'forced' to react.
The word you're looking for is denial. Google it.
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Benny, on the topic of ignoring... You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about because you clearly have no idea what it means.
When people ignore bullies and haters, it just means they refuse to be offended by the attackers. And the proper way yo handle it is to report it to someone with the power to force them to stop. You know, the smart thing to do? Making them not worth your time and whatnot? The only weak people are the ones who always get offended or can be so easily manipulated by a bully to be 'forced' to react.
The word you're looking for is denial. Google it.
Exactly what I meant to say but said by someone who actually knows how to say things the way they mean them.
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Benny, on the topic of ignoring... You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about because you clearly have no idea what it means.
When people ignore bullies and haters, it just means they refuse to be offended by the attackers. And the proper way to handle it is to report it to someone with the power to force them to stop. You know, the smart thing to do? Making them not worth your time and whatnot? The only weak people are the ones who always get offended or can be so easily manipulated by a bully to be 'forced' to react.
The word you're looking for is denial. Google it.
Those "People who have the power" never do jack about bullies. They just say "oh, it's the internet. blah blah blah." Often times, those "people who have the power" are bullies themselves. Plus, you're not "refusing to get offended" by ignoring them, you're just letting them succeed in bullying you by giving them no form of punishment. I'm not "in denial" just because I have good reasons to hate the whole "ignoring" concept.
Let me also put one more example. I remember a lot of times I was bullied, and I retaliated and stood up for myself those instances, those moments are now mostly forgotten. Then I remembered the times I ignored bullies, and those instances are STILL eating away. The only way to release that frustration is to let it out on those bullies, but since those bullies are people you don't see anymore, those moments of anger carry on through your life. In a way, ignoring makes bullying even WORSE, and to this day I still regret the instances I "ignored" bullies.
But this topic is not about "Ignoring" it's about hatred towards furries.
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I made one comment, so don't get sassy or that might mean trouble, because that's my job, dig? But, well, the fact you can't come to terms with those bullies is your own fault. I had mine and I have long since gotten over them. If you can't, then tough. Time to get in touch with reality Benny - your brain is a muscle too, and you're not using it because you seem to think I was accusing you of being in denial in that post. Likewise, I want you to have documented proof in multiple sources that shows me the people in power don't do anything. You seem to forget I am a person in power, and I do plenty to keep the trolls away.
Learn to control yourself instead of trying to control others. You only becomes as bad as the bully when you use the same methods to get them to stop.
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Well this got heated fast. I mean i always knew it was gonna be a touchy subject which got me excited but I mean. I see both sides. I do understand that in some level you have to stand up to bullies but the way you're say in I Benny Is like you're say in it's the only option. I've had bullies, not many thankfully as I'm quite a tall chap so people are scared of me, but nice always ignored them. Didn't get aggressive however never told any on In power.
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Well, I'm speaking mostly in regards to internet trolling, since that's what this topic is mostly about after all. You literally cannot muscle against someone on the internet - it just makes you look dumb. Self defense is its own thing in real life, though, but doing more than is needed gets people into really deep shit.
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Well, I'm speaking mostly in regards to internet trolling, since that's what this topic is mostly about after all. You literally cannot muscle against someone on the internet - it just makes you look dumb. Self defense is its own thing in real life, though, but doing more than is needed gets people into really deep shit.
I saw someone try in to say I'll beat you up in defense. Made me laugh for a while. Anyway with internet trolls it never butts me. What can they do? Spam you with hate? Meh I put it in a folder and when I'm sad I open it and laugh at the hate. Bloody hilarious.
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And that's exactly the point I'm trying to get across.
Let's think about trolls as a hostile soldier with a gun. Their gun has no ammunition and you are aware of it, but you have a box of ammunition on the table nearby. You're between them and the ammo. They demand you hand over the ammunition. Is telling them no saying that the ammo doesn't exist? No - you know the ammo exists but you are not going to allow them to have it because you know they'll use it against you. And, in turn, by not giving them the ammo, you have more of your own ammunition to use against them.
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And that's exactly the point I'm trying to get across.
Let's think about trolls as a hostile soldier with a gun. Their gun has no ammunition and you are aware of it, but you have a box of ammunition on the table nearby. You're between them and the ammo. They demand you hand over the ammunition. Is telling them no saying that the ammo doesn't exist? No - you know the ammo exists but you are not going to allow them to have it because you know they'll use it against you. And, in turn, by not giving them the ammo, you have more of your own ammunition to use against them.
Yeah. It's a good way of looking at things like that. Although to be fair many places I go on the internet people are quite accepting once I explainnsome stuff to them. Maybe I just got to better sites by I've never had a big problem.
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Same. I haven't dealt with too much trolling beyond Deviantart. I know what to look for and I certainly don't shove my furriness in everyone's face, so that may help. Many times I have had people ask 'what the **censor** even is a furry?' One being my father, another being my little brother, and the rest having been kids at school. I gave them the baseline, admitted there were extreme members as with any fandom, and they all reacted positively. My Brother said it sounded pretty alright, my father realized he had the wrong idea and accepted it, and the kids at school all had somewhere in between those two reactions.
I have only really gotten hate on the internet. And I used the handy-dandy block and report functions to stop the issue right then and there. They either got banned a few days later or were punished in some other way. Every time.
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Same. I haven't dealt with too much trolling beyond Deviantart. I know what to look for and I certainly don't shove my furriness in everyone's face, so that may help. Many times I have had people ask 'what the **censor** even is a furry?' One being my father, another being my little brother, and the rest having been kids at school. I gave them the baseline, admitted there were extreme members as with any fandom, and they all reacted positively. My Brother said it sounded pretty alright, my father realized he had the wrong idea and accepted it, and the kids at school all had somewhere in between those two reactions.
I have only really gotten hate on the internet. And I used the handy-dandy block and report functions to stop the issue right then and there. They either got banned a few days later or were punished in some other way. Every time.
Hmm. Haven't told my parents yet. Not sure why. They're both very accepting. Anyway another topic for another day.
Back on topic, I remember watching IHE video on I hate furries and was surprised at the amount of hate he got for it. I mean he made valid points and didn't even hate them, just said they were odd.
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Dude, I saw that same video and I have to say I was ashamed of those members of the fandom giving him so much grief. My friend Christy (known as StealthSushi here) showed me the video while we were up watching a bunch of cringe compilations. IHE has strong opinions usually, but he was so genuinely kind about that one that it amazed me how many furries got their knickers in a twist. I have every feeling that the vast majority of them just saw 'I hate furries' and assumed it was to be taken literally and that it would be another troll video. Sad for those irate furs that it was more to our support than detriment.
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Yeah. I mean it was the first video of his I watched and I loved it. Those people of the fandom really over reacted. I actually had to pinch myself as I swear it was a dream. The comments where just so serial. It doesn't matter now though I mean he takes hate on the chin and laughs about it. An lot like how I do it.
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Dude, I saw that same video and I have to say I was ashamed of those members of the fandom giving him so much grief. My friend Christy (known as StealthSushi here) showed me the video while we were up watching a bunch of cringe compilations. IHE has strong opinions usually, but he was so genuinely kind about that one that it amazed me how many furries got their knickers in a twist. I have every feeling that the vast majority of them just saw 'I hate furries' and assumed it was to be taken literally and that it would be another troll video. Sad for those irate furs that it was more to our support than detriment.
...You're kidding, right? Those furries had every right to be pissed at him. There's literally no nice way to say "furries are horrible people." The fact that you people can just smile at him just shows you're supporting the bullies and the people who want to make our lives hell, which honestly makes me sick and disgusted.
Sometimes I don't even know who you guys are anymore.
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Dude, I saw that same video and I have to say I was ashamed of those members of the fandom giving him so much grief. My friend Christy (known as StealthSushi here) showed me the video while we were up watching a bunch of cringe compilations. IHE has strong opinions usually, but he was so genuinely kind about that one that it amazed me how many furries got their knickers in a twist. I have every feeling that the vast majority of them just saw 'I hate furries' and assumed it was to be taken literally and that it would be another troll video. Sad for those irate furs that it was more to our support than detriment.
...You're kidding, right? Those furries had every right to be pissed at him. There's literally no nice way to say "furries are horrible people." The fact that you people can just smile at him just shows you're supporting the bullies and the people who want to make our lives hell, which honestly makes me sick and disgusted.
Sometimes I don't even know who you guys are anymore.
Dis you see the video? He doesn't actually hate furries. That's just the title for most of his things. The worst he says is he's odd and that he doesn't get it. That's not hate.
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Dude, I saw that same video and I have to say I was ashamed of those members of the fandom giving him so much grief. My friend Christy (known as StealthSushi here) showed me the video while we were up watching a bunch of cringe compilations. IHE has strong opinions usually, but he was so genuinely kind about that one that it amazed me how many furries got their knickers in a twist. I have every feeling that the vast majority of them just saw 'I hate furries' and assumed it was to be taken literally and that it would be another troll video. Sad for those irate furs that it was more to our support than detriment.
...You're kidding, right? Those furries had every right to be pissed at him. There's literally no nice way to say "furries are horrible people." The fact that you people can just smile at him just shows you're supporting the bullies and the people who want to make our lives hell, which honestly makes me sick and disgusted.
Sometimes I don't even know who you guys are anymore.
Dis you see the video? He doesn't actually hate furries. That's just the title for most of his things. The worst he says is he's odd and that he doesn't get it. That's not hate.
Honestly, his problem is the title. I don't care if he was joking, he was asking for trouble when he came up with the title.
You may think this is a bit hypocritical to say, but generally what I hate is how people purposely try to provoke others, and the title was the provocation point, so in a way the title is still somewhat bullying.
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It's not bullying as he doesn't hammer on about how he hates furries. Bullyingnis when someone physically, verbally or emotionally abuses you on a day to day basis. And he do nothing off the sort.
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It's not bullying as he doesn't hammer on about how he hates furries. Bullyingnis when someone physically, verbally or emotionally abuses you on a day to day basis. And he do nothing off the sort.
No, but I still think the title was provocative.
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I will give you that however most of his titles are and he never means harm. Or at least I get that impression.
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It's called sarcasm, Benny. Not everything is literal. His video proves that. I get called 'furfag' in jest by other furries, and I know they're joking because previous experience tells me they think no such thing. As said, think with your brain.
The guy behind the persona of IHE is a well meaning person.
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Id like to point out IHE stands for I Hate Everything and he uses "I Hate _" as the title to literally all of his videos regardless of if he does or not. It's a character. Is it clickbait? yes. Is it silly to suggest he change his title format for one specific subject because people won't bother to actually watch the video before forming an opinion on it? Also yes.
Though I see you're point it can be viewed as provocative but I feel that isn't really an excuse.
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I just wanna point out that consistently bickering with people who have different opinions on how to deal with "bully's", especially ignoring them, is no better than the bullies that harass people in the first place .w.
For me, my relationship with the fandom is a double edged sword. While I generally enjoy the community and the people apart of it, I also hate the contra that it's the most "accepting" fandom out there. While many people are accepting of many different other people and ideals and etc, there are many people that claim this but absolutely aren't. I find it funny when someone preaches their acceptance of genders, races, etc, but then turn around and act very "speciest" towards certain groups of peoples choices of fursona's. I've also seen quite a few people that don't accept certain orientations, subgroups, etc.
And as I believe it's already been mentioned, furries make themselves great targets most of the time. They open themselves up to criticism because they feel they have to prove something to everyone and stand up "against" criticism of the fandom. "Furry pride" is a wonderful example. It mashes the worst parts of "gay pride" with the worst parts of "furry pride" half of the time, and you end up with gay femboy Red Rusker images being slathered everywhere with furries preaching their supremacy over their "oppressors."
Is that the majority or every person/furson? No, but it's the most loud spoken of the minority.
And maybe this'll be an unpopular opinion but hey, it's not the first one I've ever said on here!
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Nrein. I am going to find you, and I am going to give you a cookie.
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Nrein. I am going to find you, and I am going to give you a cookie.
Peanut Butter is a secret passion of mine but plain old chocolate chip is acceptable.
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I don't believe this. Basically, you guys are acting like we DESERVE the hate. That we're SUPPOSED to be tortured, ridiculed, and told to kill ourselves, like we're a pariah on the planet. Basically, you're caving in to how people view us.
Well I'm sorry for being such a horrible person for being a furry, but if being a furry and liking non-humans makes me that much of a scumbag, then I'd rather be a scumbag than change my OC to a human.
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I don't believe this. Basically, you guys are acting like we DESERVE the hate. That we're SUPPOSED to be tortured, ridiculed, and told to kill ourselves, like we're a pariah on the planet. Basically, you're caving in to how people view us.
Well I'm sorry for being such a horrible person for being a furry, but if being a furry and liking non-humans makes me that much of a scumbag, then I'd rather be a scumbag than change my OC to a human.
I...I.... No comment
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I don't believe this. Basically, you guys are acting like we DESERVE the hate. That we're SUPPOSED to be tortured, ridiculed, and told to kill ourselves, like we're a pariah on the planet. Basically, you're caving in to how people view us.
Well I'm sorry for being such a horrible person for being a furry, but if being a furry and liking non-humans makes me that much of a scumbag, then I'd rather be a scumbag than change my OC to a human.
I...I.... No comment
That's sure what it feels like. The last few pages of posts have been mostly negative comments about furries.
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No it's been saying there's a bad side to the fandom. Like every fandom. We're accepting it.
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No it's been saying there's a bad side to the fandom. Like every fandom. We're accepting it.
Yeah, but you're exaggerating the bad side. You guys are acting like "the good side" is barely existant.
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I don't see much of a bad side... Perhaps I'm part of it? Eh-oh.
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I've been following this thread, and to throw in my two cents and to perhaps paraphrase a few things said in order to challenge you Benny:
No one has said that we deserve the hate, but it is justified. We all hate ISIS because they go around killing people in the name of Islam. Not all Islamists are extremists, but they're all being shunned by Donald Trump.
They don't deserve the hate and the fear, but arguably, it is justifiable by people with small minds who don't understand the difference.
No one said that the Muslim community is supposed to be oppressed like this, except the small minded people who hate and fear them.
These small minded people, my dear bunnycorn, are the bullies who flock together because they don't understand what they see and see it as wrong because they are told.
They are nothing more than bullies.
Now bullying is a very one way street with a dominant bully and a usually submissive victim. Perhaps the advantage of being a furry and not a Muslim is that laws aren't being set in motion against us, and even then it's something that can be denounced or bullied out of being.
However bullying is only existent as long as the victim allows it or accepts it. Richard Dawkins made a point once that "offence is never given, only taken". As soon as the child rises above the school bully, either by telling a teacher or by ignoring them, the bullying isn't bullying anymore.
Now I get your point, it's pretty **censor** hard to ignore a bully as he punches you in the face, but in the long run, furries arn't getting punched through the internet, they're just being called mean names by a few individuals who don't understand what a furry is, because they have a small mind in reference to the topic. Anything outside of that is assault and against the law.
tl;dr
The hate is not something we deserve, but is justified at least my small minded individuals.
Bullying is what you make of it and at the end of the day, hate against flurries, justified or not, only effects you if you let it.
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The hate is not something we deserve, but is justified at least my small minded individuals.
Bullying is what you make of it and at the end of the day, hate against flurries, justified or not, only effects you if you let it.
but is justified
but is justified
So in other words, yes, we are scum. We deserve to die in the most gruesome way possible because the hate we get is "justified" according to you. You're probably thinking that I didn't read what you said, but I didn't really need to. Anything positive you said is contradicted purely by the fact that you said that our hate is justified.
As for bullies. They NEVER EVER go away. No matter how much you ignore them, no matter who you ask to deal with them, or anything else. I am sick and tired of people like you pretending that "ignoring" is this special, magical tool that just makes bullies go away, when it just makes things worse!
I used to really respect and look up to you guys to be honest, but you're no better than the FAF members.
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Sorry, that's meant to read as "by small minded individuals"
Much as I seem to have typed "flurries instead of furries"
#phone
I'm not trying to be condescending...
Let me change the words around too to give the same meaning but with a different delivery.
To people with small minds who don't understand what they're hating, as long as others do also, the hate they dish out is justified.
And cool, then don't ignore it, stand up against it, educate people and then the problem won't ever exist again. Show them what a good furry is and that we're not all gay, autistic neckbeards.
Also FAF doesn't exist anymore, lol
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Sorry, that's meant to read as "by small minded individuals"
Much as I seem to have typed "flurries instead of furries"
#phone
I'm not trying to be condescending...
Let me change the words around too to give the same meaning but with a different delivery.
To people with small minds who don't understand what they're hating, as long as others do also, the hate they dish out is justified.
And cool, then don't ignore it, stand up against it, educate people and then the problem won't ever exist again. Show them what a good furry is and that we're not all gay, autistic neckbeards.
Also FAF doesn't exist anymore, lol
I guess that makes sense. They themselves think it's justified, but it really isn't.
...Just for the record, I'm actually two of those things. (I'm both autistic, and I'm assuming a "neckbeard" is someone who grows hair over their neck. ...I do, but I shave it off, I swear.)
I know this isn't a very nice thing to say, but good riddance. ...Then again, that's not entirely true. They just renamed it to Weasyl. (When something happened to FAF, a lot of its members flocked to Weasyl and kind of turned that community into a similar anti-furry forum.)
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What's FAF?
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What's FAF?
Fur Affinity Forums.
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Oh okay. What was bad about it? If you don't mind me asking
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Doctor Nefarious on page 2 kind of said it best.
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Don't know if you read my point on hatred for the Muslim community or just read the tl;dr, but I'm quite proud of my comparison. Especially as someone who knows a lot of Muslims.
I'm also glad we got through that misunderstanding.
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Doctor Nefarious on page 2 kind of said it best.
Okay I'll check that out. Sorry if I seemed like a jerk.
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I will just point out, 90% of the internet bullies don't even believe the shit they spew. Its just to get a rise. Fact is most internet trolls are sad, sad individuals with little power in their own lives. Bullying is their only way to feel powerful, and bluntly, even if you persuaded them that they were wrong, they would not care, they would still call you a "Furfag" and an "autist" because simply put, that's what they DO. its not about furries, its about a feeling of power, the feeling they are BETTER than someone else on the internet.
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Don't know if you read my point on hatred for the Muslim community or just read the tl;dr, but I'm quite proud of my comparison. Especially as someone who knows a lot of Muslims.
I'm also glad we got through that misunderstanding.
I did. I actually kind of have a similar disgust for the hatred of Muslims to be honest.
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A bit off topic but Donald Trump is someone who if he died tomorrow I would be extremely happy. Is that bad?
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Well then I'm sure you'll see, that despite a few misinterpretations, we've all been on your side the whole time, they just didn't convey their ideas as efficiently and left things open to misinterpretation.
Cool this argument is over.
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Well then I'm sure you'll see, that despite a few misinterpretations, we've all been on your side the whole time, they just didn't convey their ideas as efficiently and left things open to misinterpretation.
Cool this argument is over.
To be fair, I do see the bad side of the fandom, I just tend to ignore them. They have nothing to do with me. Plus, even if a person has a gross fetish, it's their business.
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Well then I'm sure you'll see, that despite a few misinterpretations, we've all been on your side the whole time, they just didn't convey their ideas as efficiently and left things open to misinterpretation.
Cool this argument is over.
To be fair, I do see the bad side of the fandom, I just tend to ignore them. They have nothing to do with me. Plus, even if a person has a gross fetish, it's their business.
Exactly!
That's why I like this forum, because we are somewhat removed from the bad side by keeping this place pg-13.
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the people who insult our specie feels envy, they need someone to hate or their lives have no meaning, these kind of people lives pathetic lives, eating proceceed food, living with their moms, being virging, all they have use to insult us, they are. they can stand to watch a person who has found the source of happiness, a reason to live and fight for, they want to feel superior because obviouly they are not.
We as furries have the honor to have a pure animal race that trascend over all paralel universes, because we have a strong faith in our true selves, we are a brotherhood, a family that shares one of the most powerful likings that is to discover who truly are: a feline, a fox, a doggie, a dragon and how is to live the lives of the hater? i'll tell you how would be the life without being a furry:
the hater has usually 13-14 years old going on high school, is bullied of how fat he/she is, collects every rubbish that gets popular only to fit in his/her group, live with his/her parents who have problems, they suffer from mental problems, they say the most irrelevant/off topic words you can possibly imagine, and they claim to be "random" when the truth is that even being random there's moments and chances to be. They are cowards, make horrible and disgusting gameplay videos where they believe that swearings and screams make it funny, they let themselves being bullies, have questionable cleaning habits, have their rooms a mess and look at weird strange porn videos for lack of gf.
having their life a completly fail they have to feel important and strong, so those monekys and pigs (with all due respect to the fursonas or even real species) those people, i say, needs to ruin successful lifes like ours, being a furry is a important priviledge for have our blood pure in our powerful veins, because we have a life purpose and they don't. Imagine if someone important like Bill Gates or Obama have a blog or an account, cant you imagine the amount of hate mails they would receive?
there's a rule my powerful friends, and you can't post your things without tried to be trolled, and you must have a hard skin to take it, i know it gets annoying over time, but we are internet celebities, we carry proudly the flag of the Furry and to get notoriety we must also receive some hate, is part to be Famous, and you wanna know what means to be hated? that at least we gave the message very clear to those people BUT, the "message "of those people hating us doesn't have the force we put on it first making it imposible to compete against us, we are a pure animal race unlike them, is envy what they have, let that envy makes us more popular and tracend over time
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Yeeah I'm gonna jump on that boat, we're neither a "species", nor superior in any way to how "humans" live.
I mean let's be for real, if this world were a "furry" world then half of the things that have been complained about on here would be real problems, and a lot of things not even mentioned would be.
I always use the "If 'furries' would be real, half of us would be trying to avoid being crushed/eaten by insane macro furs, and the other half would get sold into 'yiff' slavery" example.
Can furry be a way of life? Sure. But I wouldn't go so far as to say it's the ultimate supreme.
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as i was saying, is a proud to be furry, and carry the honor to hold animal blood on their veins, we must not let ourself feel down when somebody who is not happy enough crush us! we must stand still and if the dagger of hate pierce our hearts we must stand and walk carrying it, we are talking about our true self not a fairy tails, people who think we are autistic people can't see more than their noses and claim to have the ultimate truth in their mouths
I'm sorry if I have to contradict you, but I'm afraid you might be suffering from some sort of self-induced delusion of the superiority of the "furry" as an abstract entity. Let me pop that bubble of yours and send you hurling back into reality, step by step.
First things first. Furries are not perfect. Apart from the fact that I personally don't believe in that "trascending the multiverse" thing, there's a lot wrong with how you picture furries. I'ts not spiritual, it's not mystic, it's not about finding you very own inner being through spiritual kinship with an animal. That's what you might think, and you (and surely some others) might be furry in that sense. But we're looking at the community at large here, and have to find the single thing shared by all furries, the "root" of it, so to speak. Which is simply the fact we like anthropomorphic animals. Nothing more, nothing less. We are not superior, and neither are we inferior. We don't trascend a bloody thing. We share an interest, a hobby. Not more, not less.
This brings us to my second point. People are very different, and furries themselves differ a lot. And in the fandom there's a lot (like, A LOT) of people who, accept it, make people cringe. For fu**s sake, they make ME cringe. Some furries are like that, there's no point in denying it. It's not something which affects only us. There's cringe in every fandom. Some havemore, some have less. But it's there.
Interestingly enough, most of these cringy people are teens or young adults with few friends, social anxiety or problems, and often suffering from general "tumblr syndrome" - the inability to accept anyone else's opinion while at the same time forcing their own ideas, interests and cringy behaviour on others and crying about "evil people" and "cyber-bullying" when they're told they can't behave like that. Often, they also describe their "haters" the same way you did. Interesting coincidence.
Ah, yes. Let's talk about the haters, those that call us **censor**, furgots, yiffers, skunkfuckers and what not. Not all of them are fat, stupid, lonely teen virgins without a future. Some of them surely are. Some furries are like that, too. No fandom or group has the exclusive right over such people. Does that mean these "haters" are right? No. I'm not defending them. I'm a furry myself, I'd be so much happier if we could be open about being ourselves without someone judging. But as much as I hate those who judge us without knowing us, I'm don't spread hate towards them. I'm honest towards them, as I am a hoenst person in general.
Telling ourselves that we are "superior" and good and have a great honour and whatever while others who judge us are fat, lonely virgins is a lazy excuse. It might make you happy in your little dream world, but you're not opening your eyes, not seing the truth.
Instead of deceiving yourself you should try to grow the bloody hell up and see things as they really are.
*points at him* people like him and his friends believes that Furries are just a bunch of people who likes Anthropomorfic animals when is a lie, The Furry Fandom is much rich, complex and creative than that, is he ignoring the artistic works we been doing through the years?
is this kind of people who make us look like the same of the rest people, all the non furries find their source of happiness, in lots of things, but us Furries we found not only our own source of happiness and personal heaven but also a way of life and all the haters can't stand it.
the people who claims to be furry just because they like Anthro animals or shows needs to invest more time on what they like, i won't opose, all powerful ideologies start by a simple dream and my dream is to be free from insults and can walk free without being jugded or trolled, that being a furry is a reason of proud and not shame, sure people can appeal to the sexual topic but what we do in our bedrooms is our business and cannot be taken down.
And that my friends is what are we been fighting for, the right to be respected and recognized as a poweful insivible nation that lives in the internet, we are a comunity, but is sad to see how certain people can't realize that *throws the response away*
Also, i know am gonna be critiziced, mocked and even insulted.. i know there's gonna be responses to this trying to ridiculize me but you know what? is an honour, i feel proud to say what i feel without fearing nothing of critics, the next responses are a prize for fight for my ideas and dreams, things that they do not have because unlike a true furry they want to pretend to be normal and neglect what they, and being normal is not what define a true furry. For my Furry life and ideals i am dispose to be in problems in The Enemy who tries to take us down but i choose this to fight for our rights and way of living
you are proud to be a furry despite what haters would say? then raise your paw and say "I AM PROUDLY A FURRY " if you think that i am crazy or any insult you wanna say to me, go ahead i am not afraid, i will not read it anyways nor is gonna change my way of thinking like you desperated want to because i am a furry and i am proud of what i am, a human with feline Heart and Soul!
i am happy to say what i feel fearing nothing and avoiding comments that try to take me down feeling weak, i live under the Furry comunity and after my death my soul is gonna guide in those future furries who choose to follow my example
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I wanna know what you're on, I could really use that on my off days.
You can't say what's a "wrong" way to be a furry, by saying that you're immediately contradicting what it means to be furry and just need to hush.
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Also you make yourself sound like a martyr. You're really not. Considering you're say in this...., to other furries.
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Whoa, I was gonna say sometime earlier that we furries should be lauded as the step above trans-Humanists, but what Balareth is saying goes.. well, in some direction I don't wanna go. Especially in regards to processed food, what's wrong with processed food!?
I myself am also a trans-Humanist, but I want much more than what I think the typical trans-Humanist wants. They would be satisfied with enhancement technologies that are still very much Human in design. Either because they don't have much imagination for something more than Human, or perhaps they fear being shunned by society if they were to become something too non-Human.
Take Deus Ex: Human Revolution for example, all of the augmentation prosthesis are Human in design, even the most extensively-augmented man, Joran Namir (I think that's his name), is still completely Humanoid. Why? Maybe it's just game design for the sake of simplicity, don't wanna have to model characters with all sorts of different shapes of mechanical limbs based on various animal species, I guess...
But hopefully some day in real life, I'll meet some highly ambitious trans-Humanist furries who've turned themselves into cybernetic Dragons or something~
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See, I have no problem with people wanting the betterment of mankind, I can't say I stand people who think they're already better because of their internet hobbies .w.
I always hope that in my lifetime I could see things maybe go in a direction of almost Star Trek proportions, where everyone is equal, we don't care about money and acquiring so much as bettering ourselves and learning/evolving.
But that's getting a tad bit off topic ^^;
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Uhh... Balareth? Small question... What exactly does being a furry mean in your eyes?
ah! this is something good finally! a Furry is a person who developes his/her love for anthropomorfic animals but, unlike certain people think, is not just that
The Furries contribute with good part of the internet by making wonderful drawings with beautiful characters and epic scenarios, Epics Roleplaying where you incarnate a magical being and have true wonderful adventures, worthy to being on a book, magical quests, love, hate, trease and combat a second life printed in words, videos and music to make their characters live and move to interact with the Furry's own worlds.
A Furry has a dedication and love to these magical beings that lives in their mind (as far we know) and are great artists in my opinion who share a slice of their talents to public world as a way of expression.
Unfortunately artistic people and/or people who have a love for Anthro animals suffer from hate and bully, but we are strong enough to be ourselves despite what other thinks
Look above this comment, there's people who think i am forcing others to believe what i believe, and i found this lame and a (pathetic) desperate way to take me down implying their truths as Ultimate Truths, i dont force them to think like me, i didnt had a gun and point you to believe in me, you can simply scroll down to the other replies or be in another topic/section, just as simple.
And in a Resume Furries are the great great people who made internet what it is today and have a love and devotion for their fursonas with ALL that implies ;)
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You're literally not of this planet are you?
You say you're not trying to force your belief but then you're saying if you don't agree, then leave.
And what about people who can't draw, or have no artistic talent, are they not furries?
What about people who don't have time to devote the majority of their time to "being a furry"?
It's outlandish, and honestly it just contributes to like what Sandor says, the small part of why people hate us.
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"We as furries have the honor to have a pure animal race that transcend over all parallel universes"
Gonna be honest here this is no more stupid than any other spiritual or religious belief as far as I'm concerned and I'm sure I could think of a couple of people who'd agree.
However that is in no way what being a furry is. I'm sick of people trying to define being furry as believing your an animal, or liking yiff or **censor** whatever. It's liking anthropomorphic animals If that's not unique enough for you and doesn't make you feel like a special enough of a snowflake that's a damn shame.
Uhh... Balareth? Small question... What exactly does being a furry mean in your eyes?
ah! this is something good finally! a Furry is a person who developes his/her love for anthropomorfic animals but, unlike certain people think, is not just that
The Furries contribute with good part of the internet by making wonderful drawings with beautiful characters and epic scenarios, Epics Roleplaying where you incarnate a magical being and have true wonderful adventures, worthy to being on a book, magical quests, love, hate, trease and combat a second life printed in words, videos and music to make their characters live and move to interact with the Furry's own worlds.
A Furry has a dedication and love to these magical beings that lives in their mind (as far we know) and are great artists in my opinion who share a slice of their talents to public world as a way of expression.
Unfortunately artistic people and/or people who have a love for Anthro animals suffer from hate and bully, but we are strong enough to be ourselves despite what other thinks
Look above this comment, there's people who think i am forcing others to believe what i believe, and i found this lame and a (pathetic) desperate way to take me down implying their truths as Ultimate Truths, i dont force them to think like me, i didnt had a gun and point you to believe in me, you can simply scroll down to the other replies or be in another topic/section, just as simple.
And in a Resume Furries are the great great people who made internet what it is today and have a love and devotion for their fursonas with ALL that implies ;)
No... That's not quite it at all. You're more than entitled to believe that stuff but don't tell me that if I don't I'm not a furry.
Also you should check yourself, you yourself are selling your idea of the truth as ultimate truth as I see it. Hypocrisy is rampant.
To conclude, you're idea of what a furry actually is is incorrect. However, you can believe whatever that new age sounding stuff you believe is.
To quote a friend of mine: "SNIFF so Beautiful sniff almost... real enough...
: ...
to make me forget that Furry is a hobby and not some giant political movement set on taking over the world."
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This is not the place.
Cease and desist.
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I concur with the cool dude.
We must resist the more argumentative parts of our nature.
Like cool dudes.
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This thread. It is hilarious and generally brings a smile to my face. Because despite people arguing about this and, me mysel arguing, it shows that people are passionate about this fandom. Yeah we may argue...... a lot. But we still are furries. And I'm not gonna go about saying that this will help us rise above the bullies. We won't. They'll always be there but we can at least talk to each other, explain it. We have different beliefs about the whole thing but in the end. We can help each other when it's needed.
Writing this now I realise how cliche it is but I feel I have a point, anyway I've said my peace.
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This thread. It is hilarious and generally brings a smile to my face. Because despite people arguing about this and, me mysel arguing, it shows that people are passionate about this fandom. Yeah we may argue...... a lot. But we still are furries. And I'm not gonna go about saying that this will help us rise above the bullies. We won't. They'll always be there but we can at least talk to each other, explain it. We have different beliefs about the whole thing but in the end. We can help each other when it's needed.
Writing this now I realise how cliche it is but I feel I have a point, anyway I've said my peace.
There was so much cheese in this post I grated it and put it on my Pizza.
That's how much I liked it.
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In case everyone missed this message;
This is not the place.
Cease and desist.
Even though I think the discussion/dispute was perfectly fine and rather on-topic...
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This thread. It is hilarious and generally brings a smile to my face. Because despite people arguing about this and, me mysel arguing, it shows that people are passionate about this fandom. Yeah we may argue...... a lot. But we still are furries. And I'm not gonna go about saying that this will help us rise above the bullies. We won't. They'll always be there but we can at least talk to each other, explain it. We have different beliefs about the whole thing but in the end. We can help each other when it's needed.
Writing this now I realise how cliche it is but I feel I have a point, anyway I've said my peace.
There was so much cheese in this post I grated it and put it on my Pizza.
That's how much I liked it.
Thank you. That has to be some pretty good cheese.
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It has taken a sudden turn for the better, but on a thread about bullying, I'm not particularly happy with you guys shooting someone down like that.
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It has taken a sudden turn for the better, but on a thread about bullying, I'm not particularly happy with you guys shooting someone down like that.
Sorry for taking a conflict, i just don't fear nobody and believe in freedom of speech that's all
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I care more about people's opinions of others' opinions than people's opinions of an issue.
I also hope that the previous statement makes sense.
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I care more about people's opinions of others' opinions than people's opinions of an issue.
I also hope that the previous statement makes sense.
I had to read the phrase several times over, probably because english is not my first language. It does make sense though.
i apology with you
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I think Baraleth was just trying to add some positivity to furries instead of seeing too much of the dark side.
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i recognize i exagerated, i was just tring to imply that being a Furry is something you should feel proud not sorry, and i was trying to cheer up those who feel bullied, i still stand on my ideas 100% but i think not i didn't say it well
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I love how tumblr freaks out if you use the wrong pronouns but be furry and they will murder you. Can they really demand acceptance with accepting all
I've been on Tumblr for years and never had an issue, nor have I seen a person harassed.
While I agree overall, I have seen people say things like: "I have a crush on sonic the hedgehog, and no I'm not a furry" and such. So I see that some people feel its wrong to be a furry, and have seen some rather stupid "jokes". Fact, every time I see a furry post on tumblr that isn't on a furry related blog, the post is normally making fun of our perverted side of the fandom. Although in the end, I guess its really nothing wrong, and all in the name of fun.
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I love how tumblr freaks out if you use the wrong pronouns but be furry and they will murder you. Can they really demand acceptance with accepting all
I've been on Tumblr for years and never had an issue, nor have I seen a person harassed.
While I agree overall, I have seen people say things like: "I have a crush on sonic the hedgehog, and no I'm not a furry" and such. So I see that some people feel its wrong to be a furry, and have seen some rather stupid "jokes". Fact, every time I see a furry post on tumblr that isn't on a furry related blog, the post is normally making fun of our perverted side of the fandom. Although in the end, I guess its really nothing wrong, and all in the name of fun.
Yeah, I tend to look over stuff like that. :)
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People tend to think the one represents the many they see one furry whose into all these things and thinks we're all into it. It's typical stereotype bull crap.
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<Short rant is short>When people hate on anything, I'm more disappointed by their bad grammar than the (usually) sloppy and easily countered arguments that I don't bother with.
One is entitled to an opinion, but please, PLEASE learn how to construct a valid point and a coherent sentence! PLEASE!!!!!!
<Rant over>
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I think another big thing is it's not just the media that shuns us, but makers of games basically ignore us. For example, the Project X Zone franchise. It has all these cool anthro VILLAIN characters, but every single playable character is human. Even the ones that "technically" aren't human are still human in appearance. I feel like the games were just designed as a middle finger to a group that, I think, could actually be a good potential market. Like, if they just had human goodguys, that would alienate furries. If they had anthro playables mixed in, THEN they would be appealing to a broader audience, and more people would buy the game.
...But so few good games anymore have goodguy anthros in them. :(
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I think another big thing is it's not just the media that shuns us, but makers of games basically ignore us. For example, the Project X Zone franchise. It has all these cool anthro VILLAIN characters, but every single playable character is human. Even the ones that "technically" aren't human are still human in appearance. I feel like the games were just designed as a middle finger to a group that, I think, could actually be a good potential market. Like, if they just had human goodguys, that would alienate furries. If they had anthro playables mixed in, THEN they would be appealing to a broader audience, and more people would buy the game.
...But so few good games anymore have goodguy anthros in them. :(
I definitely understand that. However video game heroes are normally kinda dull so meh. Although if there was an anthro video game I'd buy it one hundred percent.
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I always played the wolf in city of heros or whatever it was.
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I miss the old sonic games not the ones on earth.... I wish powerranges would have met the same fate as SATAM.
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Sonic the Hedgehog is dead as a franchise. They somehow manage to publish a game once in a while just to remind us that it'a cap.
Dust: An Elysian Tail however is a very good game which I personally loved. Plus che protagonist is a badass.
Now, in Sonic's defense, he gets a good game every now and then. Yeah, Sonic Boom WiiU was a complete load, but Sonic Boom 3DS was actually okay.
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Also Sonic Generations was really good.
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I think another big thing is it's not just the media that shuns us, but makers of games basically ignore us. For example, the Project X Zone franchise. It has all these cool anthro VILLAIN characters, but every single playable character is human. Even the ones that "technically" aren't human are still human in appearance. I feel like the games were just designed as a middle finger to a group that, I think, could actually be a good potential market. Like, if they just had human goodguys, that would alienate furries. If they had anthro playables mixed in, THEN they would be appealing to a broader audience, and more people would buy the game.
...But so few good games anymore have goodguy anthros in them. :(
There's a really obvious reason for why this is. Like super obvious. How has no one managed to mention this? Video games now a days, at least in the AAA market, are designed to have relatable hero characters that people want to be or want to control. Now using the logic of a cynical business man what is more relatable to a human, another human or a weird furry alien thing? If you answered the latter you clearly ignored my thing saying use cynical businessman logic. They are appealing to a broader audience by not having anthro hero characters. It's how they think.
Not saying it's right as anyone with a brain knows humans can relate to the weirdest things in the world. I'm just pointing out it has absolutely nothing to do with some anti furry conspiracy in video games and stuff.
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I think another big thing is it's not just the media that shuns us, but makers of games basically ignore us. For example, the Project X Zone franchise. It has all these cool anthro VILLAIN characters, but every single playable character is human. Even the ones that "technically" aren't human are still human in appearance. I feel like the games were just designed as a middle finger to a group that, I think, could actually be a good potential market. Like, if they just had human goodguys, that would alienate furries. If they had anthro playables mixed in, THEN they would be appealing to a broader audience, and more people would buy the game.
...But so few good games anymore have goodguy anthros in them. :(
There's a really obvious reason for why this is. Like super obvious. How has no one managed to mention this? Video games now a days, at least in the AAA market, are designed to have relatable hero characters that people want to be or want to control. Now using the logic of a cynical business man what is more relatable to a human, another human or a weird furry alien thing? If you answered the latter you clearly ignored my thing saying use cynical businessman logic. They are appealing to a broader audience by not having anthro hero characters. It's how they think.
Not saying it's right as anyone with a brain knows humans can relate to the weirdest things in the world. I'm just pointing out it has absolutely nothing to do with some anti furry conspiracy in video games and stuff.
It's narcissistic, is what it is. Plus, it's bad enough that so many games have these shallow, poorly designed human characters as the main star, but humans are also treated as if we are the "absolute good," as if we are the absolute ONLY species that's allowed to be good, have a heart, or be capable of anything other than killing and wiping out the oh-so glorious human race. Not to mention, there's no more "saving the world" anymore, just "saving the human race."
Plus, if there's any species, real or fantastical, that I can relate to, it's basically any creature BUT humans. I don't want my character to be like me: I want my character to be as little like me as possible. Besides, humans are boring looking creatures.
Even with your analogy, I still think there's some stigma against furries in video game makers. I mean seriously, there's NO REASON that either Project X Zone couldn't have a single anthro character.
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I think another big thing is it's not just the media that shuns us, but makers of games basically ignore us. For example, the Project X Zone franchise. It has all these cool anthro VILLAIN characters, but every single playable character is human. Even the ones that "technically" aren't human are still human in appearance. I feel like the games were just designed as a middle finger to a group that, I think, could actually be a good potential market. Like, if they just had human goodguys, that would alienate furries. If they had anthro playables mixed in, THEN they would be appealing to a broader audience, and more people would buy the game.
...But so few good games anymore have goodguy anthros in them. :(
There's a really obvious reason for why this is. Like super obvious. How has no one managed to mention this? Video games now a days, at least in the AAA market, are designed to have relatable hero characters that people want to be or want to control. Now using the logic of a cynical business man what is more relatable to a human, another human or a weird furry alien thing? If you answered the latter you clearly ignored my thing saying use cynical businessman logic. They are appealing to a broader audience by not having anthro hero characters. It's how they think.
Not saying it's right as anyone with a brain knows humans can relate to the weirdest things in the world. I'm just pointing out it has absolutely nothing to do with some anti furry conspiracy in video games and stuff.
It's narcissistic, is what it is. Plus, it's bad enough that so many games have these shallow, poorly designed human characters as the main star, but humans are also treated as if we are the "absolute good," as if we are the absolute ONLY species that's allowed to be good, have a heart, or be capable of anything other than killing and wiping out the oh-so glorious human race. Not to mention, there's no more "saving the world" anymore, just "saving the human race."
Plus, if there's any species, real or fantastical, that I can relate to, it's basically any creature BUT humans. I don't want my character to be like me: I want my character to be as little like me as possible. Besides, humans are boring looking creatures.
Even with your analogy, I still think there's some stigma against furries in video game makers. I mean seriously, there's NO REASON that either Project X Zone couldn't have a single anthro character.
exactlY i hate humans I don't roleplay to be human, because I am human i roleplay because i want to forget life and make up my own fantasy life as a furry creature with special powers that seem supernatural something diffrent.
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It's narcissistic, is what it is. Plus, it's bad enough that so many games have these shallow, poorly designed human characters as the main star, but humans are also treated as if we are the "absolute good," as if we are the absolute ONLY species that's allowed to be good, have a heart, or be capable of anything other than killing and wiping out the oh-so glorious human race. Not to mention, there's no more "saving the world" anymore, just "saving the human race."
Plus, if there's any species, real or fantastical, that I can relate to, it's basically any creature BUT humans. I don't want my character to be like me: I want my character to be as little like me as possible. Besides, humans are boring looking creatures.
Even with your analogy, I still think there's some stigma against furries in video game makers. I mean seriously, there's NO REASON that either Project X Zone couldn't have a single anthro character.
Well I mean why wouldn't humans want to save the human race? Everything in nature besides us, as far as we know, is focused purely on survival of the species. So why wouldn't we? Not being able to relate to humans is pretty strange. I don't think we're that great but I mean I can still happily relate to humans. As for use looking boring, that's just wrong. I mean we got opposable thumbs, which is real unique, we got this complex system of nerves and organs and electric currents and shit inside us. It's cool. We're a very unique species in many ways.
As for that last bit, that just sounds like you have an issue with yourself. I can relate. I feel that the reason I pointed out counts as a reason. Not a good one, but it's understandable isn't it? They want to play safe and get lots of money. Which sucks.
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It's narcissistic, is what it is. Plus, it's bad enough that so many games have these shallow, poorly designed human characters as the main star, but humans are also treated as if we are the "absolute good," as if we are the absolute ONLY species that's allowed to be good, have a heart, or be capable of anything other than killing and wiping out the oh-so glorious human race. Not to mention, there's no more "saving the world" anymore, just "saving the human race."
Plus, if there's any species, real or fantastical, that I can relate to, it's basically any creature BUT humans. I don't want my character to be like me: I want my character to be as little like me as possible. Besides, humans are boring looking creatures.
Even with your analogy, I still think there's some stigma against furries in video game makers. I mean seriously, there's NO REASON that either Project X Zone couldn't have a single anthro character.
Well I mean why wouldn't humans want to save the human race? Everything in nature besides us, as far as we know, is focused purely on survival of the species. So why wouldn't we? Not being able to relate to humans is pretty strange. I don't think we're that great but I mean I can still happily relate to humans. As for use looking boring, that's just wrong. I mean we got opposable thumbs, which is real unique, we got this complex system of nerves and organs and electric currents and shit inside us. It's cool. We're a very unique species in many ways.
As for that last bit, that just sounds like you have an issue with yourself. I can relate. I feel that the reason I pointed out counts as a reason. Not a good one, but it's understandable isn't it? They want to play safe and get lots of money. Which sucks.
Except EVERYTHING ELSE is disposable to your typical human heroes in videogames and certain media. Everything from the birds to the trees? That stuff is disposable just as long as the human race profits., Also, not all species only care about survival, and I'm sick of people making that excuse.
Maybe because wolves don't go out and try to wipe out the human race, or because rhinos don't live to saw people's hair off, or because bats and snails don't spend millions of dollars on soldiers and tanks to fight an idiots war instead of putting that money to health care. Oh, and lets not forget the fact humans are a species that often encourages the bullying of those who don't belong, and that when people try to help the planet, they are treated like terrorists, or that humans are a creature that knows right from wrong, but often doesn't care. Yeah, there are good humans and bad animals out there, but as a whole it's the actions of evil people that prevail over those who do good, and until things change with the state of our own species, I will always be misanthropic.
So what if we have opposable thumbs? And complex nerves and whatnot? Who cares? None of that makes humans look any less boring to me, so no it's NOT wrong. And no, I DON'T have to relate to humans, so stop trying to convince me to like or relate to humans, please.
I am currently working on a book involving non-humans. Lately I have been trying to think of ways to mature my book, and I'm willing to do a lot of things to mature the book. The one thing I am NOT willing to do (besides make it a sexual book or something like that) is make the book about humans. There are people out there DYING for media that doesn't star humans, as well as people who, believe it or not, could care less what the star of the book is. If it's well made, people will read a book that's not about humans. I would rather make a book about non-humans that breaks even at best than make a book about humans that makes millions. If people want to read about humans, there's thousands upon thousands of other books that star humans. My book is for people like me who want something different.
That's basically my two cents on those comments. Not everyone likes/relates to humans. Some people don't want the same human story over and over and over. Some people want something different. Sure, we get animated movies for those who don't want humans, and a few games every once in a while. But for every form of media about non-humans, there's 5 to 10 where humans are the absolute good and all other life is scum.
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Except EVERYTHING ELSE is disposable to your typical human heroes in videogames and certain media. Everything from the birds to the trees? That stuff is disposable just as long as the human race profits., Also, not all species only care about survival, and I'm sick of people making that excuse.
Maybe because wolves don't go out and try to wipe out the human race, or because rhinos don't live to saw people's hair off, or because bats and snails don't spend millions of dollars on soldiers and tanks to fight an idiots war instead of putting that money to health care. Oh, and lets not forget the fact humans are a species that often encourages the bullying of those who don't belong, and that when people try to help the planet, they are treated like terrorists, or that humans are a creature that knows right from wrong, but often doesn't care. Yeah, there are good humans and bad animals out there, but as a whole it's the actions of evil people that prevail over those who do good, and until things change with the state of our own species, I will always be misanthropic.
So what if we have opposable thumbs? And complex nerves and whatnot? Who cares? None of that makes humans look any less boring to me, so no it's NOT wrong. And no, I DON'T have to relate to humans, so stop trying to convince me to like or relate to humans, please.
I am currently working on a book involving non-humans. Lately I have been trying to think of ways to mature my book, and I'm willing to do a lot of things to mature the book. The one thing I am NOT willing to do (besides make it a sexual book or something like that) is make the book about humans. There are people out there DYING for media that doesn't star humans, as well as people who, believe it or not, could care less what the star of the book is. If it's well made, people will read a book that's not about humans. I would rather make a book about non-humans that breaks even at best than make a book about humans that makes millions. If people want to read about humans, there's thousands upon thousands of other books that star humans. My book is for people like me who want something different.
That's basically my two cents on those comments. Not everyone likes/relates to humans. Some people don't want the same human story over and over and over. Some people want something different. Sure, we get animated movies for those who don't want humans, and a few games every once in a while. But for every form of media about non-humans, there's 5 to 10 where humans are the absolute good and all other life is scum.
Most people are non-furry humans. That is the truth. Is it really a major surprise that as a result most of the games feature humans? The average college freshman bro who plays Xbox between waking up with a hangover and skipping class doesn't want to play Call of Duty with horse-people. He really just wants to frag people and not have to wonder where all the horses are coming from. Games reflect their broader audience, honestly. The only reason we have the game industry that we have today is because of the people that came to play them. That can be said about a lot of things that aren't strictly furry-related.
And who says that humans are always bad and animals are always good? Dolphins do some pretty messed up stuff, including bullying and rape (seriously). Monkeys have been documented killing and eating their young. Necrophiliac rape has been observed in ducks. I know you conceded that animals aren't always good and humans aren't always bad, but the tone of your argument almost seems to betray a bit of insincerity with that statement. Not saying that is what you are actually meaning, but that is how it comes off.
They are video games, not major statements about our society designed to make us ponder deeply about us as a species. Tetris isn't some grand treatise upon how our disparate aspects of ourselves must be brought together to make a more fulfilling whole. I'm really sorry, but there are a lot more things more pertinent than this to get worked up about. Games for furries exist. Games with anthros exist. The large prevalence of human-oriented games doesn't negate these games' existence. I really wish most games were as deep and complex as Dwarf Fortress, but that isn't what most people want. Whatevs, I can deal.
And besides, what does this have to do with people trolling furries? Stuff like this is really just extra cannon fodder. The louder you yell the more people start to look at you. It is the same regardless if you are a person standing in a busy mall or if you are getting in impassioned debates online.
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Except EVERYTHING ELSE is disposable to your typical human heroes in videogames and certain media. Everything from the birds to the trees? That stuff is disposable just as long as the human race profits., Also, not all species only care about survival, and I'm sick of people making that excuse.
Maybe because wolves don't go out and try to wipe out the human race, or because rhinos don't live to saw people's hair off, or because bats and snails don't spend millions of dollars on soldiers and tanks to fight an idiots war instead of putting that money to health care. Oh, and lets not forget the fact humans are a species that often encourages the bullying of those who don't belong, and that when people try to help the planet, they are treated like terrorists, or that humans are a creature that knows right from wrong, but often doesn't care. Yeah, there are good humans and bad animals out there, but as a whole it's the actions of evil people that prevail over those who do good, and until things change with the state of our own species, I will always be misanthropic.
So what if we have opposable thumbs? And complex nerves and whatnot? Who cares? None of that makes humans look any less boring to me, so no it's NOT wrong. And no, I DON'T have to relate to humans, so stop trying to convince me to like or relate to humans, please.
I am currently working on a book involving non-humans. Lately I have been trying to think of ways to mature my book, and I'm willing to do a lot of things to mature the book. The one thing I am NOT willing to do (besides make it a sexual book or something like that) is make the book about humans. There are people out there DYING for media that doesn't star humans, as well as people who, believe it or not, could care less what the star of the book is. If it's well made, people will read a book that's not about humans. I would rather make a book about non-humans that breaks even at best than make a book about humans that makes millions. If people want to read about humans, there's thousands upon thousands of other books that star humans. My book is for people like me who want something different.
That's basically my two cents on those comments. Not everyone likes/relates to humans. Some people don't want the same human story over and over and over. Some people want something different. Sure, we get animated movies for those who don't want humans, and a few games every once in a while. But for every form of media about non-humans, there's 5 to 10 where humans are the absolute good and all other life is scum.
First of all, allow me to clarify something. Just because I pointed out why video game developers and other producers of media do these things does not mean I support it. I for one am glad that people, such as yourself, would much rather make something they want to make without worrying about trying to catch a broader audience at the expense of staying true to what they want to make. I feel I would do the same.
I too feel the high concentration of media where humans are great is a little ridiculous. I prefer my media to be a little more realistic, however I do also like to lose myself in some purely ridiculous fantasy where the good guy is infallible and yadda yadda from time to time. Technically those don't need to have human heroes either really.
I never said you HAVE to relate to humans. You can do what you want, not for me to say what you can or can't do. I just feel it's odd. Maybe because I take psychology and I'm trying to analyse it or something I dunno.
I do agree with some of your points. War is bad. I hate it in it's modern form. Merely men and women being made to risk their lives over ideas. More money should go into health care. I do, however, disagree with your claim we promote the bullying of those who are different as a race. In my experience it's been drilled into my head so many times I'm sick of hearing it. Year after year we all get together and have a huge assembly about an issue we are already aware of and almost all of us are against. From what I can tell, modern society in the first world, when compared to say 100 years ago or hell even 50, is much more caring for those who may be seen as different or weaker than the average population. and you know what, that's great. Not saying we're done yet. We aren't. Far too many still suffer. But we are making progress.
One final thing, you said we are a species who know right from wrong yet ignore it. You claim evil people prevail over good people. That doesn't hold much weight with me. I seem to be alone in this view point, and it upsets me greatly that I am, but I don't believe in good or evil. They're false labels. Things made up to push people into categories. To glorify the "good people" and demonize "evil people". I mean what even is right or wrong? I bet if you tried to tell me I'd find something I disagree with. You know why? Because right and wrong is highly subjective and relative. It differs from person to person and from situation to situation. Good and evil are just a product of the grossly black and white world we live in.
I've spurned the idea that anyone is good or bad or that intrinsic right or wrong exists. Why? Because when I analyse the situations surrounding actions and deconstruct the motives and beliefs of the people who did them I always, every single time, find the same thing. Someone who tried to do what they thought was right, no matter the cost. There are exceptions of course, some people do wish nothing but pain on others. You know what? They aren't evil. They're sick. They need help. Demonizing such people helps no one except make you feel superior and good. Good for you, helps no one in the long run.
Before anyone even says it, because we all know they will now that I've said I don't think evil exists. Yes, that also means I don't think Hitler was evil. I do think what he did was wrong. But if you look at his motives, at the base of it he was a man who wanted to help his country become great again. I mean it had fallen so far in the time before he gained power. It went from a young powerful nation to handing France money it didn't even have just like that. I don't see that as evil. His actions however were wrong and he did the wrong things and he got what he had coming in the end.
Also not believing in good and evil doesn't necessarily mean I don't personally view actions as good or bad. I just see them as relative and try to look at why they happened before I judge.
As a side note, Benny maybe try to avoid being too misanthropic, or you might just end up allowing yourself to be a person who will be viewed by some as "evil". Then again, do what you like, I won't stop you. We all do our own thing and try to do right by others. Right?
Oh before I forget, good luck with the book. I hope that goes well for you. :)
As a quick aside to what Halei-Halei said about games, you're pretty spot on there, friend. I too also wish more games were deep and complex. i personally think games, as well as other media, have massive potential to allow us to ponder ethical questions safely. But I also like to play something dumb once in a while, nice to blow of steam and relax and not experience some existential crisis because of a game XD Also I LOVE DWARF FORTRESS! Almost as much as I love debating, when things go well. Both are awesome.
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Note: I wrote this before Helei's and Grovy's posts, and they did a better job explaining things, but I'm keeping this for my own two cents.
I honestly don't see much of the "humans are absolute good" in media anymore. More often I've seen humans learning to co-exist with other species and nature respectfully instead of controlling everything "lesser", or even showing humans as scum and non-humans as good. But even more media just doesn't really focus on any side, they just tell a story with humans and leave it with that. If they have an idea for a story that happens to be about humans against a creature that isn't human, that doesn't mean they are purposely trying to "oppress the non-humans". The non-human species is still capable of having ideals and actions that endanger humans just as humans to them. Or if it is humans being the aggressor, that doesn't mean the game is showing that it's "right". It's just telling a story.
Throughout my life so far as a writer and artist, all except one story so far has been about exclusively non-humans. Most furry, a few alien. I'm currently working on a second human-centered story (though it includes hybrid creatures as well), my first one in literally several years. Why?
1) That's just how the idea came up in my head, and it works well with it.
2) Even furry-centric stories can get stale, at least from an artist/author's standpoint.
The thing is about anthropomorphic animals is that you can use them to replace anything humans can do. And even if it's an animal with non-human capabilities (flight, acute smell sense), it is barely utilized, so in my opinion there's barely a difference aside from visually. They're humans with fur in most cases.
Believe me, I LOVE media with non-humans, especially if they do something unique with it. I prefer it myself, and approve people creating more of it, but I'm not gonna dismiss a human story right off the bat and cry "humans are not heroes! FURSECUTION!"
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One final thing, you said we are a species who know right from wrong yet ignore it. You claim evil people prevail over good people. That doesn't hold much weight with me. I seem to be alone in this view point, and it upsets me greatly that I am, but I don't believe in good or evil. They're false labels. Things made up to push people into categories. To glorify the "good people" and demonize "evil people". I mean what even is right or wrong? I bet if you tried to tell me I'd find something I disagree with. You know why? Because right and wrong is highly subjective and relative. It differs from person to person and from situation to situation. Good and evil are just a product of the grossly black and white world we live in.
I've spurned the idea that anyone is good or bad or that intrinsic right or wrong exists. Why? Because when I analyse the situations surrounding actions and deconstruct the motives and beliefs of the people who did them I always, every single time, find the same thing. Someone who tried to do what they thought was right, no matter the cost. There are exceptions of course, some people do wish nothing but pain on others. You know what? They aren't evil. They're sick. They need help. Demonizing such people helps no one except make you feel superior and good. Good for you, helps no one in the long run.
Before anyone even says it, because we all know they will now that I've said I don't think evil exists. Yes, that also means I don't think Hitler was evil. I do think what he did was wrong. But if you look at his motives, at the base of it he was a man who wanted to help his country become great again. I mean it had fallen so far in the time before he gained power. It went from a young powerful nation to handing France money it didn't even have just like that. I don't see that as evil. His actions however were wrong and he did the wrong things and he got what he had coming in the end.
Also not believing in good and evil doesn't necessarily mean I don't personally view actions as good or bad. I just see them as relative and try to look at why they happened before I judge.
As a side note, Benny maybe try to avoid being too misanthropic, or you might just end up allowing yourself to be a person who will be viewed by some as "evil". Then again, do what you like, I won't stop you. We all do our own thing and try to do right by others. Right?
I know a few people who see your view on good and evil, and I can understand why someone would think that. At the same time, I'm not sure I agree with it entirely.
As for being "too misanthropic," I know people who hate everything about humans. I'm at least willing to admit that good humans exist. But as for people hating me for being misanthropic, honestly that's their problem.
2) Even furry-centric stories can get stale, at least from an artist/author's standpoint.
I switch back and forth between humans and monsters and, frankly, I don't think it gets stale at all. Yet humans got stale a LONG time ago. So far, out of all my stories, only one human character exists in any of them, and I can rarely draw him without drawing his pet bear as well.
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I know a few people who see your view on good and evil, and I can understand why someone would think that. At the same time, I'm not sure I agree with it entirely.
As for being "too misanthropic," I know people who hate everything about humans. I'm at least willing to admit that good humans exist. But as for people hating me for being misanthropic, honestly that's their problem.
That's fair enough.
Also your right it is, I for one used to be rather misanthropic during a much bleaker time in my life. I'm not now, as it would be difficult to be with my views.
Can I just say this whole debate has blown my mind with how civilized it's been? It's great. I swear usually by now someone would have strawman'd someone and the whole thing would have derailed into just people insulting each other. It's nice to know these nice, friendly debates can still happen without anyone getting at anyone else's throat.
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Speaking as someone who wants to be a game dev, what advantage does an animal character have for marketing and sales over a human.
For most people: none.
Now think the cost of simulating fur, making new models, and doing any number of voice effects for these animal people.
Unless you, as the author, have personal appeal, or the game itself is basic and cartoony, its not viable.
Most games do not gain anything from being furry, so why go through the effort. Same reason there are not many games set purely around plush toys, or done in entirely comic book style.
I for one would love to see more animal based games, and might actually make some, but there certainly is nothing sinister about the lack of anthro's
Also to those saying that "they play games to get away from life", personally I suspect 99% of us are not buff space-marines, or world leaders, or wizards. For most people, being one of those is escapism enough.
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There's a surprising amount of smart and civilization people on here. I'm proud of you all.
Seconded.
personally I suspect 99% of us are not buff space-marines, or world leaders, or wizards. For most people, being one of those is escapism enough.
I have no idea what you are talking about. Clearly I am a loyal follower of Chaos and A worshiper of the Blood God Khrone. XD
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The forums won't let me quote this part properly for some reason.
Also, I don't get why people like you say you like something, yet ALWAYS end their statements with negativity, as if you're lying about liking something.
Edit: Oh, you removed it. Well, I saw it and responded, so eh.
That's not what I'm doing. It's something we learned in speech class; when critiquing something, you bring up the pros first, then discuss the cons. Saying the cons first tends to turn people off to what you're saying and they assume you're against that thing entirely. Bringing up the pros first lets people know right off the bat that you can see the good in something and you're not doing this critique purely to bash it. I'm being realistic.
It's the similar reason I tend to do a string of explanation statements before speaking an idea or comment. It's so people don't jump to conclusion with what I'm saying and tune out my elaboration before I can speak it.
I do use harsher language than how I'd more accurately describe it to make it more interesting to read, but I can see how people can misjudge it as me being an asshole.
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There's a surprising amount of smart and civilization people on here. I'm proud of you all.
I believe you meant 'civilized'? Anyway yeah Furries can be smart just like any other 'group' of people, not everyone in the world is a total deadbrain around the world.. sadly in some cases that type of person becomes the Stereotype for all their race. It's like just because one chess piece is blue means their all blue... or because one egg is white their all white.... something silly like that... Oh bigotry..... how silly and stupid you are.
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Hmmm. I don't want to be 'that' guy but for me it seems that a few of these comments are referring to themselves as if they where actually a anthropomorphic / feral animal. We are still human in the end. Sorry I this offended you though I doubt it would.
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More likely, Crest, I think they might fit a criteria for being trans-Humanists. A bit like myself. I'd go to great lengths to become something more than Human, although I do have a strong Humanitarian side despite my incredible distaste for the Human body in all aspects.
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Oh okay. Fair enough.
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Speaking as someone who wants to be a game dev, what advantage does an animal character have for marketing and sales over a human.
For most people: none.
Now think the cost of simulating fur, making new models, and doing any number of voice effects for these animal people.
Unless you, as the author, have personal appeal, or the game itself is basic and cartoony, its not viable.
Most games do not gain anything from being furry, so why go through the effort. Same reason there are not many games set purely around plush toys, or done in entirely comic book style.
I for one would love to see more animal based games, and might actually make some, but there certainly is nothing sinister about the lack of anthro's
Also to those saying that "they play games to get away from life", personally I suspect 99% of us are not buff space-marines, or world leaders, or wizards. For most people, being one of those is escapism enough.
My problem is that there's just so much more diversity with non-humans than there are with humans, and what diversity CAN be churned from humans isn't utilized. We get the same military dudes, the same knights, the same demon hunters, and usually these characters have such similar personalities that they begin to meld together, causing games to get stale. That's the reason I don't get fired up for a lot of games. The ones I DO get fired up for, believe it or not, star non-humans.
Not to mention, making a game about non-humans would actually appeal to a broader audience, as most people will either not care as long as the game is good or buy it just for non-humans. I, personally, have gotten so sick and tired of "humans are the absolute good" type games that I literally won't play them. A game can have amazing gameplay, graphics, characters with unique personality (usually said games have none of these, to be honest), but if it's a narcissistic "humans are the absolute good" type game, that will ruin just about any enjoyment I could have from the game. Diablo III, for example, is a game that has decent enough gameplay, but the idea that ONLY humans can be good and that being misanthropic is the root of all evil ruined the game for me.
My big problem with your statement is that, if done right, making an anthro model literally takes no more money than a human model. If you seriously feel the need to make your character super-duper detailed, of course it's going to be time consuming, but does the character really need to have super-realistic detail? Most gamers are not turned off by games that have a slightly less realistic style. I, however, am HUGELY turned off by "realistic looking" games, especially ones that portray the whole entire world as one color. Plus, making tails and large ears doesn't cost all that much.
People constantly tell me "they're just trying to play safe marketing," but deep down I feel you guys are wrong. If non-human models are so expensive to make, why do people have no problem spending grands to make these HUGE dragons or hideous monsters. The money spent making all those monsters could have been used to make decent non-human creatures that are actually peaceful. But instead, humans are treated as gods of righteousness. You say it's not narcissism or anti-furry beliefs, but honestly I'm not buying what your selling. I still believe that it's a combination of vanity and throwing the middle finger to us furries.
Also, saying the negative things first BEFORE the positive things actually stresses the positive points out more, while saying negative things afterwards stresses those points out, and often times cancels out anything positive, which makes the positive comments feel like lies.
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I don't think it'd really cost much more time or money to design non-Human characters either.
Someday I'd like to make a game that allows the player to pick from an extremely wide variety of species and body types, or perhaps even customise their own species to some degree. Probably not like Spore or anything, though... Or at least not being as 'silly'.
And on the subject of Humans being treated like they're special in games and other media, particularly among a cast of other equally-intelligent species, Mass Effect kinda does this.
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The Collectors go after them exclusively in ME2, and in the early parts of ME3 (I didn't play that one past maybe five percent of it) the struggle for Earth is made out to be more important than everything else.
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I don't think it's too off topic. It pertains to the issue raised by Benny, where Humans are made portrayed as more important or better than non-Human species that most appeal to furries. If I really must, I'll stop after saying this:
I recall a scene in ME3 where Shepard is talking to Udina after the first Council meeting, and regardless of dialogue choice (This autodialogue happens a LOT in ME3 even if playing with settings that allow for maximum choice) or renegade/paragon levels, Shepard will ask Udina of the Council "How can they be so blind?" for refusing to send help to Earth, due to all of their fleets and armies of course being overwhelmed by Reaper forces. A selfish Human-centric narrative was being presented to me even if my Shepard would have been understanding of the situation, like if they were a very selfless and considerate paragon.
But perhaps all of this is the fault of EA pushing BioWare or something, I don't know. Maybe if not for deadlines they would have had more choices, including one where Shepard could request any available forces that the other races have to spare, if there even are any, and perhaps sadly be like "okay, I understand you don't have any forces to spare during the attacks on your homeworlds" instead of being all like "you're all so selfish for only protecting yourselves instead of rushing to Humanity's aid!".
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My problem is that there's just so much more diversity with non-humans than there are with humans, and what diversity CAN be churned from humans isn't utilized. We get the same military dudes, the same knights, the same demon hunters, and usually these characters have such similar personalities that they begin to meld together, causing games to get stale. That's the reason I don't get fired up for a lot of games. The ones I DO get fired up for, believe it or not, star non-humans.
Not to mention, making a game about non-humans would actually appeal to a broader audience, as most people will either not care as long as the game is good or buy it just for non-humans. I, personally, have gotten so sick and tired of "humans are the absolute good" type games that I literally won't play them. A game can have amazing gameplay, graphics, characters with unique personality (usually said games have none of these, to be honest), but if it's a narcissistic "humans are the absolute good" type game, that will ruin just about any enjoyment I could have from the game. Diablo III, for example, is a game that has decent enough gameplay, but the idea that ONLY humans can be good and that being misanthropic is the root of all evil ruined the game for me.
My big problem with your statement is that, if done right, making an anthro model literally takes no more money than a human model. If you seriously feel the need to make your character super-duper detailed, of course it's going to be time consuming, but does the character really need to have super-realistic detail? Most gamers are not turned off by games that have a slightly less realistic style. I, however, am HUGELY turned off by "realistic looking" games, especially ones that portray the whole entire world as one color. Plus, making tails and large ears doesn't cost all that much.
People constantly tell me "they're just trying to play safe marketing," but deep down I feel you guys are wrong. If non-human models are so expensive to make, why do people have no problem spending grands to make these HUGE dragons or hideous monsters. The money spent making all those monsters could have been used to make decent non-human creatures that are actually peaceful. But instead, humans are treated as gods of righteousness. You say it's not narcissism or anti-furry beliefs, but honestly I'm not buying what your selling. I still believe that it's a combination of vanity and throwing the middle finger to us furries.
Also, saying the negative things first BEFORE the positive things actually stresses the positive points out more, while saying negative things afterwards stresses those points out, and often times cancels out anything positive, which makes the positive comments feel like lies.
I am pretty sure that when Call of Duty: Whatever is Out Now came out, the developers weren't high-fiving each other about not including anthros in their game. Really, I think you would find that the reasons behind not a whole lot of games having anthros are really mundane.
And think of it this way when it comes to modelling/creating anthro characters and assets. Humans don't have long tails, big ears, digitigrade legs, or other unusual features as such. Each and every single one of these creates extra modelling work because of the increased polygons that those features require. Then each of those pieces has to be individually textured and then animated, along with a whole other slew of things I probably don't even know about because I frankly have no knowledge about that process. This all takes money, and this all takes time. The money part is pretty self-explanatory, and no studio wants to go overbudget. The time part could probably be worse though, because the longer it takes you to finish that nineteenth turtle-person anthro to appease the scalies out there so they don't flame your game forum after release, the further behind your tech becomes and the better all of your competition gets in that regard. Yeah, you can point out the huge and difficult-to-make dragon, but it probably isn't hugely likely that the game is going to have many models as complex and demanding as those. Additionally, if it isn't in a prerendered cutscene, they likely took shortcuts with that model that you can't even see because they have to get it to run efficiently on the player's console or PC. That huge and imposing dragon that you only see from far away may be even less detailed than that character you see all the time up close, simply by virtue of the fact that you never get close enough to see the detail.
And lastly, all of this is besides the point in some regards because people still need to buy your game. If you are developing sequel #47 to some popular FPS franchise, millions of people are going to line up to buy your game regardless of how good or bad it is. You can afford to make a character's nose-hairs sway realistically in the breeze. If you are trying to develop a furry-friendly game that is an original IP and most people aren't furry anyway? You probably can't afford to make hugely grandiose models because not only is your property untested but you are also selling to what is frankly a niche market, and there simply aren't as many possible players to buy and play it. Unless you are developing your game on a library PC and living off ramen and tap water you simply can't afford to go all-out on modelling anthro characters unless your property is already well established or unless you are independently wealthy.
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My problem is that there's just so much more diversity with non-humans than there are with humans, and what diversity CAN be churned from humans isn't utilized. We get the same military dudes, the same knights, the same demon hunters, and usually these characters have such similar personalities that they begin to meld together, causing games to get stale. That's the reason I don't get fired up for a lot of games. The ones I DO get fired up for, believe it or not, star non-humans.
Not to mention, making a game about non-humans would actually appeal to a broader audience, as most people will either not care as long as the game is good or buy it just for non-humans. I, personally, have gotten so sick and tired of "humans are the absolute good" type games that I literally won't play them. A game can have amazing gameplay, graphics, characters with unique personality (usually said games have none of these, to be honest), but if it's a narcissistic "humans are the absolute good" type game, that will ruin just about any enjoyment I could have from the game. Diablo III, for example, is a game that has decent enough gameplay, but the idea that ONLY humans can be good and that being misanthropic is the root of all evil ruined the game for me.
My big problem with your statement is that, if done right, making an anthro model literally takes no more money than a human model. If you seriously feel the need to make your character super-duper detailed, of course it's going to be time consuming, but does the character really need to have super-realistic detail? Most gamers are not turned off by games that have a slightly less realistic style. I, however, am HUGELY turned off by "realistic looking" games, especially ones that portray the whole entire world as one color. Plus, making tails and large ears doesn't cost all that much.
People constantly tell me "they're just trying to play safe marketing," but deep down I feel you guys are wrong. If non-human models are so expensive to make, why do people have no problem spending grands to make these HUGE dragons or hideous monsters. The money spent making all those monsters could have been used to make decent non-human creatures that are actually peaceful. But instead, humans are treated as gods of righteousness. You say it's not narcissism or anti-furry beliefs, but honestly I'm not buying what your selling. I still believe that it's a combination of vanity and throwing the middle finger to us furries.
Also, saying the negative things first BEFORE the positive things actually stresses the positive points out more, while saying negative things afterwards stresses those points out, and often times cancels out anything positive, which makes the positive comments feel like lies.
I am pretty sure that when Call of Duty: Whatever is Out Now came out, the developers weren't high-fiving each other about not including anthros in their game. Really, I think you would find that the reasons behind not a whole lot of games having anthros are really mundane.
And think of it this way when it comes to modelling/creating anthro characters and assets. Humans don't have long tails, big ears, digitigrade legs, or other unusual features as such. Each and every single one of these creates extra modelling work because of the increased polygons that those features require. Then each of those pieces has to be individually textured and then animated, along with a whole other slew of things I probably don't even know about because I frankly have no knowledge about that process. This all takes money, and this all takes time. The money part is pretty self-explanatory, and no studio wants to go overbudget. The time part could probably be worse though, because the longer it takes you to finish that nineteenth turtle-person anthro to appease the scalies out there so they don't flame your game forum after release, the further behind your tech becomes and the better all of your competition gets in that regard. Yeah, you can point out the huge and difficult-to-make dragon, but it probably isn't hugely likely that the game is going to have many models as complex and demanding as those. Additionally, if it isn't in a prerendered cutscene, they likely took shortcuts with that model that you can't even see because they have to get it to run efficiently on the player's console or PC. That huge and imposing dragon that you only see from far away may be even less detailed than that character you see all the time up close, simply by virtue of the fact that you never get close enough to see the detail.
And lastly, all of this is besides the point in some regards because people still need to buy your game. If you are developing sequel #47 to some popular FPS franchise, millions of people are going to line up to buy your game regardless of how good or bad it is. You can afford to make a character's nose-hairs sway realistically in the breeze. If you are trying to develop a furry-friendly game that is an original IP and most people aren't furry anyway? You probably can't afford to make hugely grandiose models because not only is your property untested but you are also selling to what is frankly a niche market, and there simply aren't as many possible players to buy and play it. Unless you are developing your game on a library PC and living off ramen and tap water you simply can't afford to go all-out on modelling anthro characters unless your property is already well established or unless you are independently wealthy.
Worgens in Warcraft don't have tails, just ears and actually you start out human, as worgens are sort of werewolves, Dranei have tails, and digitgrade style unigrade legs. then again warcraft is a fantasy so maybe that's why.
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Warcraft is also a VERY well established franchise. So you just proved Halei-Halei's point.
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Worgens in Warcraft don't have tails, just ears and actually you start out human, as worgens are sort of werewolves, Dranei have tails, and digitgrade style unigrade legs. then again warcraft is a fantasy so maybe that's why.
At the risk of being nitpicky, World of Warcraft doesn't exactly have the most detailed models in existence. Blizzard was already flush with cash when they released World of Warcraft, and have only gotten more flush with cash ever since. The Warcraft franchise started in a time where you could churn out 2D characters for your RTS's faction in a matter of days. Just making the basic Draenei male and female models for Burning Crusade probably took an order of magnitude or two longer, and by that time they had been collecting revenues from their 2D games (and WC3) for years. A new studio just starting out that is trying to make something really unique and detailed is going to have a really difficult time unless they get a huge influx of personal wealth or outside investment. Even then it doesn't always work out. Just look at Kingdom of Amalur: Reckoning. That turned out to be such a fiasco that Rhode Island is STILL hungry for blood from Curt Schilling.
EDIT: beaten by Grovygrunge.
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My thing is, there are a ton more things in games that aren't given proper attention, more-so than "Anthro" characters. Aside from games that allow you to customize your character, there's still a serious lack of diversity in terms of what kind of *human* you can be, let alone species. I'd much rather see an incline in race/gender differences before I start worrying about what species I can be.
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My problem is that there's just so much more diversity with non-humans than there are with humans, and what diversity CAN be churned from humans isn't utilized. We get the same military dudes, the same knights, the same demon hunters, and usually these characters have such similar personalities that they begin to meld together, causing games to get stale. That's the reason I don't get fired up for a lot of games. The ones I DO get fired up for, believe it or not, star non-humans.
Not to mention, making a game about non-humans would actually appeal to a broader audience, as most people will either not care as long as the game is good or buy it just for non-humans. I, personally, have gotten so sick and tired of "humans are the absolute good" type games that I literally won't play them. A game can have amazing gameplay, graphics, characters with unique personality (usually said games have none of these, to be honest), but if it's a narcissistic "humans are the absolute good" type game, that will ruin just about any enjoyment I could have from the game. Diablo III, for example, is a game that has decent enough gameplay, but the idea that ONLY humans can be good and that being misanthropic is the root of all evil ruined the game for me.
My big problem with your statement is that, if done right, making an anthro model literally takes no more money than a human model. If you seriously feel the need to make your character super-duper detailed, of course it's going to be time consuming, but does the character really need to have super-realistic detail? Most gamers are not turned off by games that have a slightly less realistic style. I, however, am HUGELY turned off by "realistic looking" games, especially ones that portray the whole entire world as one color. Plus, making tails and large ears doesn't cost all that much.
People constantly tell me "they're just trying to play safe marketing," but deep down I feel you guys are wrong. If non-human models are so expensive to make, why do people have no problem spending grands to make these HUGE dragons or hideous monsters. The money spent making all those monsters could have been used to make decent non-human creatures that are actually peaceful. But instead, humans are treated as gods of righteousness. You say it's not narcissism or anti-furry beliefs, but honestly I'm not buying what your selling. I still believe that it's a combination of vanity and throwing the middle finger to us furries.
Also, saying the negative things first BEFORE the positive things actually stresses the positive points out more, while saying negative things afterwards stresses those points out, and often times cancels out anything positive, which makes the positive comments feel like lies.
I am pretty sure that when Call of Duty: Whatever is Out Now came out, the developers weren't high-fiving each other about not including anthros in their game. Really, I think you would find that the reasons behind not a whole lot of games having anthros are really mundane.
And think of it this way when it comes to modelling/creating anthro characters and assets. Humans don't have long tails, big ears, digitigrade legs, or other unusual features as such. Each and every single one of these creates extra modelling work because of the increased polygons that those features require. Then each of those pieces has to be individually textured and then animated, along with a whole other slew of things I probably don't even know about because I frankly have no knowledge about that process. This all takes money, and this all takes time. The money part is pretty self-explanatory, and no studio wants to go overbudget. The time part could probably be worse though, because the longer it takes you to finish that nineteenth turtle-person anthro to appease the scalies out there so they don't flame your game forum after release, the further behind your tech becomes and the better all of your competition gets in that regard. Yeah, you can point out the huge and difficult-to-make dragon, but it probably isn't hugely likely that the game is going to have many models as complex and demanding as those. Additionally, if it isn't in a prerendered cutscene, they likely took shortcuts with that model that you can't even see because they have to get it to run efficiently on the player's console or PC. That huge and imposing dragon that you only see from far away may be even less detailed than that character you see all the time up close, simply by virtue of the fact that you never get close enough to see the detail.
And lastly, all of this is besides the point in some regards because people still need to buy your game. If you are developing sequel #47 to some popular FPS franchise, millions of people are going to line up to buy your game regardless of how good or bad it is. You can afford to make a character's nose-hairs sway realistically in the breeze. If you are trying to develop a furry-friendly game that is an original IP and most people aren't furry anyway? You probably can't afford to make hugely grandiose models because not only is your property untested but you are also selling to what is frankly a niche market, and there simply aren't as many possible players to buy and play it. Unless you are developing your game on a library PC and living off ramen and tap water you simply can't afford to go all-out on modelling anthro characters unless your property is already well established or unless you are independently wealthy.
Then don't make a game where anthros are heavily detailed. Again, gameplay > graphics, and making a cartoon anthro that's not heavily detailed really doesn't cost as much as making a heavily detailed human with realistic hair.
Not to mention, furries are not such a small niche that making an anthro game would be a waste of time, especially since, because apparently I absolutely have to repeat myself over and over, most people are not going to be so turned off by the anthro characters that they're not going to buy it even if the game's really good.
Basically, all I've heard from you guys as to why good games aren't allowed to exist are excuses. People aren't willing to make an interesting game because "waaah! it's too hard!" so you think it justifies the excuse to make the SAME FLIPPING GAMES OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER! There's only so many times a game about space marines, military men and monster hunters can be made before people besides me are sick of those settings. People like me are begging for games with anthro heroes because it's different, it's something new, it's something we haven't seen a lot of since the SNES/Genesis days. I mean, seriously, you have to admit you'd like an anthro game/want something different than just more of the same. Please tell me honestly WITHOUT going into the whole "but..." thing.
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Worgens in Warcraft don't have tails, just ears and actually you start out human, as worgens are sort of werewolves, Dranei have tails, and digitgrade style unigrade legs. then again warcraft is a fantasy so maybe that's why.
At the risk of being nitpicky, World of Warcraft doesn't exactly have the most detailed models in existence. Blizzard was already flush with cash when they released World of Warcraft, and have only gotten more flush with cash ever since. The Warcraft franchise started in a time where you could churn out 2D characters for your RTS's faction in a matter of days. Just making the basic Draenei male and female models for Burning Crusade probably took an order of magnitude or two longer, and by that time they had been collecting revenues from their 2D games (and WC3) for years. A new studio just starting out that is trying to make something really unique and detailed is going to have a really difficult time unless they get a huge influx of personal wealth or outside investment. Even then it doesn't always work out. Just look at Kingdom of Amalur: Reckoning. That turned out to be such a fiasco that Rhode Island is STILL hungry for blood from Curt Schilling.
EDIT: beaten by Grovygrunge.
And the models at least In my opinion are still a bit lackluster you think with the sales of Starcraft 2 they could afford to do a litle remodeling. it's easier to redo a currently available model than it is to make a new one, should potentially be cheaper too.
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I don't think anyone is saying they wouldn't want a game like that, they're being realistic about what current developers are doing.
I'm sorry but, Call of Duty has been making the "same" game, for 13 years now. If people haven't gotten sick of it enough that there's a huge public outcry, in 13 years, then obviously no, people are never going to get sick of it.
And honestly, I'm willing to put a foot in the boat that they aren't willing to make it because it'd be too hard/time consuming to do it well and make it a hit. Almost every developer out there today would rather take shortcuts to get out their games than go the extra mile. Again, Call of Duty, they've been using the same, albeit heavily modified, engine since Modern Warfare. I know quite a few people have been begging them to just start from scratch but, honestly, that'd take way too much time/effort, they'd probably lose more than gain.
Look at EA. Let's not talk about how lazy Battlefront was. Hell, even Nintendo has been doing it with Zelda, using the same engine since Wind Waker to make their games.
Which if you ask me, Nintendo would be the only viable choice to make the kind of game you want, but the IP would have to be pretty well rounded for them to take it. What would a game about anthros be about? Where would the story go? What sort of game is it? Action? Platformer? Adventure? Are they all gonna sit around and talk about how much better they are than humans? Or just goof around and do "anthro" things?
Developers will look at that and go "Well, if they can't do anything differently than what a normal human can do, then let's not waste the money and time creating a dynamic fur system and modeling each species and look and" this and that and so on and so forth. Don't sit there taking it out on us for giving excuses, we're not the ones making the games :V Blame the developers, take it to them.
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I don't think anyone is saying they wouldn't want a game like that, they're being realistic about what current developers are doing.
I'm sorry but, Call of Duty has been making the "same" game, for 13 years now. If people haven't gotten sick of it enough that there's a huge public outcry, in 13 years, then obviously no, people are never going to get sick of it.
And honestly, I'm willing to put a foot in the boat that they aren't willing to make it because it'd be too hard/time consuming to do it well and make it a hit. Almost every developer out there today would rather take shortcuts to get out their games than go the extra mile. Again, Call of Duty, they've been using the same, albeit heavily modified, engine since Modern Warfare. I know quite a few people have been begging them to just start from scratch but, honestly, that'd take way too much time/effort, they'd probably lose more than gain.
Look at EA. Let's not talk about how lazy Battlefront was. Hell, even Nintendo has been doing it with Zelda, using the same engine since Wind Waker to make their games.
Which if you ask me, Nintendo would be the only viable choice to make the kind of game you want, but the IP would have to be pretty well rounded for them to take it. What would a game about anthros be about? Where would the story go? What sort of game is it? Action? Platformer? Adventure? Are they all gonna sit around and talk about how much better they are than humans? Or just goof around and do "anthro" things?
Developers will look at that and go "Well, if they can't do anything differently than what a normal human can do, then let's not waste the money and time creating a dynamic fur system and modeling each species and look and" this and that and so on and so forth. Don't sit there taking it out on us for giving excuses, we're not the ones making the games :V Blame the developers, take it to them.
So people who want something different have to suffer just because you people think it's not worth the time and effort to make a decent anthro game? You're not being realistic with your excuses, you're basically just saying "furries don't deserve to have fun with videogames." Not to mention, there are quite a few things anthros can do that most humans can't if you put your mind to it. But no! It's better that we get the same ****ing human characters in the same ****ing settings, with the same ****ing rehashed engines and same ****ing monochromatic graphics, all because you think that MAKING A GAME THAT ISN'T SHALLOW AND NARCISSISTIC IS A WASTE OF TIME! Yeah, if we keep up with THAT attitude, nothing interesting will ever be made. If we actually TRIED to get videogame companies to realize there's a demand for games that don't star humans, maybe we can get more out there. But no! Once again, people who want something different have to suffer.
Sue me, I AM getting kind of angry at this discussion. I'm at that point again where I honestly wonder if any of you are even real furries. Again, you can't say anything positive without saying something negative that completely goes against anything positive that was said.
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Christ you're quick to point the finger :V
I literally just say that "I don't think anyone is saying they don't want a game like that." And *I AM NOT SAYING IT ISN'T WORTH THE TIME*. I am saying that *DEVELOPERS MOST LIKELY THINK THAT.* Can you literally calm down, please?
Seriously, you're some of the worst "furry" that I know. So quick to judge when no one agrees with your view on how anything furry should be handled. I'm sorry, I may not be *your* definition of furry, but at least I can be content with what I've got in the fandom, and don't need to patronize people who don't share the same passions that I do when it comes to it.
You must believe that everyone who doesn't agree with you 100% are against you and everything you believe. You're no better than the bullies you constantly complain about, if you're gonna sit there and flip out like that over something so trivial as anthros in a video game :V
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Christ you're quick to point the finger :V
I literally just say that "I don't think anyone is saying they don't want a game like that." And *I AM NOT SAYING IT ISN'T WORTH THE TIME*. I am saying that *DEVELOPERS MOST LIKELY THINK THAT.* Can you literally calm down, please?
Seriously, you're some of the worst "furry" that I know. So quick to judge when no one agrees with your view on how anything furry should be handled. I'm sorry, I may not be *your* definition of furry, but at least I can be content with what I've got in the fandom, and don't need to patronize people who don't share the same passions that I do when it comes to it.
You must believe that everyone who doesn't agree with you 100% are against you and everything you believe. You're no better than the bullies you constantly complain about, if you're gonna sit there and flip out like that over something so trivial as anthros in a video game :V
I try to be a goodguy, in all honesty. I am sick of being treated as a scumbag just because I get frustrated easily. You think it's fun watching so many games you hate get made and win awards while the few games that come out that interest you end up sucking and/or go unnoticed? It's not. It gets frustrating when nothing you like gets made, and you're basically told that making anything good is too hard.
The fact that you called me "one of the worst furries" seriously doesn't help. Again, frustration sets in when you desperately want something anthro related, and even fellow furries tell you it's dumb to want that and developers shouldn't waste the time because it "won't make them money." You think I'm trying to bully you guys just because I'm pointing out that you're making excuses? Again, telling me I'm a terrible person makes me more frustrated. I try to be one of the best furries I can be, and now you're making me feel like the whole entire community is scum because I'm constantly being told that furries are terrible people, but I try to be one of the goodguys, but you're telling me I'm a terrible person, which makes me feel like I'm just as much of a waste of oxygen as every other furry to most people.
My problem is the fact that you absolutely can't say anything positive without saying something super-negative, not that "you don't see 100% eye to eye." Once again, it adds to the frustration. I'm sick of being treated like scum just because I'm sick of seeing nothing but "humans are the absolute good" in media these days.
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Right, but saying that I'm "not a real furry" is so much better than being the worst kind of furry.
You are literally taking me saying "This is the developers, not us" and saying "IT IS YOU, IT IS YOU. YOU'RE MAKING EXCUSES FOR DEVELOPERS SO YOU'RE JUST AS BAD (If not worse) AS THEM." You *wonder* why you're treated like that, if that's how you're going to respond to anyone that has a counterargument to what you're saying?
And no, it is that we don't see eye to eye. I could say a ton of things positive about anthros being in games, but I would most likely just be reiterating what has been already said, and *not adding to the conversation.*
And I'm sorry, can you tell me where I said that humans are the absolute good in media? You seriously need to figure out who you are gonna focus that frustration on, because focusing it on *furries* in a *furry fandom* that *understand where the issues come from* really isn't gonna help you.
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Right, but saying that I'm "not a real furry" is so much better than being the worst kind of furry.
You are literally taking me saying "This is the developers, not us" and saying "IT IS YOU, IT IS YOU. YOU'RE MAKING EXCUSES FOR DEVELOPERS SO YOU'RE JUST AS BAD (If not worse) AS THEM." You *wonder* why you're treated like that, if that's how you're going to respond to anyone that has a counterargument to what you're saying?
And no, it is that we don't see eye to eye. I could say a ton of things positive about anthros being in games, but I would most likely just be reiterating what has been already said, and *not adding to the conversation.*
And I'm sorry, can you tell me where I said that humans are the absolute good in media? You seriously need to figure out who you are gonna focus that frustration on, because focusing it on *furries* in a *furry fandom* that *understand where the issues come from* really isn't gonna help you.
If people never have anything positive to say about furries without saying something negative, what am I supposed to think?
But you ARE making excuses. And again, you're adding to the frustration of never being able to get an interesting game by saying these things.
That has nothing to do with it. Plus, you're not adding anything by saying all the negative things that have already been said, especially when there are positive things that haven't been said yet because people are too busy being negative.
You're telling me that devs shouldn't waste the time making something original instead of "humans are the absolute good" type stories because of what you think the media is willing to make. You keep saying "it's the media, not us," yet you're ALSO justifying those ideals, which in a way isn't much better.
Again, I'm trying to be a goodguy. Being told I'm "the worst kind of furry" is just making me feel depressed. How would you feel if I just stopped posting and died because I've lost any self worth after being told "I'm the worst kind of furry?" You think that feels fun? I'm not trying to insult you guys just because I'm pointing out that you're being too negative.
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Basically, all I've heard from you guys as to why good games aren't allowed to exist are excuses. People aren't willing to make an interesting game because "waaah! it's too hard!" so you think it justifies the excuse to make the SAME FLIPPING GAMES OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER! There's only so many times a game about space marines, military men and monster hunters can be made before people besides me are sick of those settings. People like me are begging for games with anthro heroes because it's different, it's something new, it's something we haven't seen a lot of since the SNES/Genesis days. I mean, seriously, you have to admit you'd like an anthro game/want something different than just more of the same. Please tell me honestly WITHOUT going into the whole "but..." thing.
If it was such a trivial prospect to make, market, and sell anthro-centric games, then wouldn't we have a larger proportion of them versus other games?
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Right, but saying that I'm "not a real furry" is so much better than being the worst kind of furry.
You are literally taking me saying "This is the developers, not us" and saying "IT IS YOU, IT IS YOU. YOU'RE MAKING EXCUSES FOR DEVELOPERS SO YOU'RE JUST AS BAD (If not worse) AS THEM." You *wonder* why you're treated like that, if that's how you're going to respond to anyone that has a counterargument to what you're saying?
And no, it is that we don't see eye to eye. I could say a ton of things positive about anthros being in games, but I would most likely just be reiterating what has been already said, and *not adding to the conversation.*
And I'm sorry, can you tell me where I said that humans are the absolute good in media? You seriously need to figure out who you are gonna focus that frustration on, because focusing it on *furries* in a *furry fandom* that *understand where the issues come from* really isn't gonna help you.
If people never have anything positive to say about furries without saying something negative, what am I supposed to think?
But you ARE making excuses. And again, you're adding to the frustration of never being able to get an interesting game by saying these things.
That has nothing to do with it. Plus, you're not adding anything by saying all the negative things that have already been said, especially when there are positive things that haven't been said yet because people are too busy being negative.
You're telling me that devs shouldn't waste the time making something original instead of "humans are the absolute good" type stories because of what you think the media is willing to make. You keep saying "it's the media, not us," yet you're ALSO justifying those ideals, which in a way isn't much better.
Again, I'm trying to be a goodguy. Being told I'm "the worst kind of furry" is just making me feel depressed. How would you feel if I just stopped posting and died because I've lost any self worth after being told "I'm the worst kind of furry?" You think that feels fun? I'm not trying to insult you guys just because I'm pointing out that you're being too negative.
NO. Holy crap, can you actually read what I write, instead of read what you THINK I am writing?
I AM NOT SAYING DEVS SHOULD NOT WASTE THE TIME. I AM SAYING DEVS MOST LIKELY SEE IT AS A WASTE OF TIME.
TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS.
COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
I am NOT JUSTIFYING THEM, I am trying to say I'M NOT THE ONE WHO THINKS IT, THEY ARE.
I'm done. I'm done trying to argue with you because you will continue to FILL MY MOUTH WITH LITERAL GARBAGE THAT I AM NOT SAYING I AGREE WITH.
You have literally "justified" anything I could say in regards to any grievance with furries that I could post on here, as to what I could have a problem with them for. In fact, people in general. Literally, my hatred for people in general is summed up in the way you've handled this entire discussion.
Thank you for doing nothing but reading what you want to believe I think/am saying.
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Right, but saying that I'm "not a real furry" is so much better than being the worst kind of furry.
You are literally taking me saying "This is the developers, not us" and saying "IT IS YOU, IT IS YOU. YOU'RE MAKING EXCUSES FOR DEVELOPERS SO YOU'RE JUST AS BAD (If not worse) AS THEM." You *wonder* why you're treated like that, if that's how you're going to respond to anyone that has a counterargument to what you're saying?
And no, it is that we don't see eye to eye. I could say a ton of things positive about anthros being in games, but I would most likely just be reiterating what has been already said, and *not adding to the conversation.*
And I'm sorry, can you tell me where I said that humans are the absolute good in media? You seriously need to figure out who you are gonna focus that frustration on, because focusing it on *furries* in a *furry fandom* that *understand where the issues come from* really isn't gonna help you.
If people never have anything positive to say about furries without saying something negative, what am I supposed to think?
But you ARE making excuses. And again, you're adding to the frustration of never being able to get an interesting game by saying these things.
That has nothing to do with it. Plus, you're not adding anything by saying all the negative things that have already been said, especially when there are positive things that haven't been said yet because people are too busy being negative.
You're telling me that devs shouldn't waste the time making something original instead of "humans are the absolute good" type stories because of what you think the media is willing to make. You keep saying "it's the media, not us," yet you're ALSO justifying those ideals, which in a way isn't much better.
Again, I'm trying to be a goodguy. Being told I'm "the worst kind of furry" is just making me feel depressed. How would you feel if I just stopped posting and died because I've lost any self worth after being told "I'm the worst kind of furry?" You think that feels fun? I'm not trying to insult you guys just because I'm pointing out that you're being too negative.
NO. Holy crap, can you actually read what I write, instead of read what you THINK I am writing?
I AM NOT SAYING DEVS SHOULD NOT WASTE THE TIME. I AM SAYING DEVS MOST LIKELY SEE IT AS A WASTE OF TIME.
TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS.
COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
I am NOT JUSTIFYING THEM, I am trying to say I'M NOT THE ONE WHO THINKS IT, THEY ARE.
I'm done. I'm done trying to argue with you because you will continue to FILL MY MOUTH WITH LITERAL GARBAGE THAT I AM NOT SAYING I AGREE WITH.
You have literally "justified" anything I could say in regards to any grievance with furries that I could post on here, as to what I could have a problem with them for. In fact, people in general. Literally, my hatred for people in general is summed up in the way you've handled this entire discussion.
Thank you for doing nothing but reading what you want to believe I think/am saying.
Oh my god!
I am TRYING to see what you are saying. I am trying my ****ed hardest to. You keep telling me "I'm not saying they shouldn't try," yet you keep telling me why they don't without giving any reason why they possibly should. Yes, I get you are not TRYING to say you think it's a waste of time, but at the same time that is how you're coming off as. Even though you're TRYING to say one thing, you end up saying something else. Do you not see this? I'm sorry if I'm pissing you off by pointing this out, but I'm not trying to.
Again, you're making me feel terrible, almost suicidal right now really. You're making me feel like such a terrible person that I'm losing any self worth through this. Look, I'm sorry if I'm not getting what you're trying to say, but I still don't appreciate the things you're saying about me.
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I'm sorry that my not agreeing with you is making you feel like that, but pointing it out isn't going to make me change my position at all on the matter :V
I don't care how I "come off" to you, what I am literally saying is that the *devs* most likely feel that way, not that *I* do. Not once did I *say* "I think it's a waste of time*, so you literally can not say that I am saying anything else than what I have.
I'm done discussing it. You say you're "trying" to see it but, no, you aren't. You don't want to, because you don't want to have any reason to acknowledge anything that doesn't support what you want.
And honestly this has gone so far off topic that I hope it gets moderated so that the discussion can't continue. Honestly wish I had stopped ahead because it was pretty pointless :V
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Tactical Hall Monitor Incoming
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Agreed, let's please get back to the original topic.
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Agreed, let's please get back to the original topic.
Can I defend my case, first? I'm kind of depressed right now from what Nrein said.
I'm sorry that my not agreeing with you is making you feel like that, but pointing it out isn't going to make me change my position at all on the matter :V
I don't care how I "come off" to you, what I am literally saying is that the *devs* most likely feel that way, not that *I* do. Not once did I *say* "I think it's a waste of time*, so you literally can not say that I am saying anything else than what I have.
I'm done discussing it. You say you're "trying" to see it but, no, you aren't. You don't want to, because you don't want to have any reason to acknowledge anything that doesn't support what you want.
And honestly this has gone so far off topic that I hope it gets moderated so that the discussion can't continue. Honestly wish I had stopped ahead because it was pretty pointless :V
I keep telling you that's not it. I do see where you and everyone else is coming from, but a lot of it still feels like excuses on the devs part. It also kind of feels like you guys are kind of trying to justify it by zooming in on all the negatives instead of trying to see any counter-arguments on the matter.
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I have to say, I loved Zootopia, a lot. But I really almost wish furries would stop pandering it as Disney acknowledging the fandom.
I've seen so many articles lately taking advantage of this. I went on Yahoo, and there was an article talking about it, and then going on to say that "If this is true, then Disney must condone the already 100+ images of Zootopia Yiff that exist." With an actual link to Judy in a very revealing situation.
Sometimes I really do agree with the axiom "furries ruin everything" x.x
Sure that's just the media spinning things in a bad light but really, we do it to ourselves.
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I have to say, I loved Zootopia, a lot. But I really almost wish furries would stop pandering it as Disney acknowledging the fandom.
I've seen so many articles lately taking advantage of this. I went on Yahoo, and there was an article talking about it, and then going on to say that "If this is true, then Disney must condone the already 100+ images of Zootopia Yiff that exist." With an actual link to Judy in a very revealing situation.
Sometimes I really do agree with the axiom "furries ruin everything" x.x
Sure that's just the media spinning things in a bad light but really, we do it to ourselves.
That's the media exaggerating the furry side of it. Furries themselves are not trying to ruin anything.
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Trying=/=Doing it in general without realizing.
Ok I'm ejecting myself, I've had enough x.x
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Trying=/=Doing it in general without realizing.
Ok I'm ejecting myself, I've had enough x.x
You're kind of doing it again.
It really doesn't help that people are ranting about how furries are ruining everything. That in itself makes it out to seem worse than it really is. Furries aren't ruining things for you, you're ruining it for yourself in a way by letting it get to you.
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Actually I'm gonna do myself a favor and just stop posting or responding. There's no point anymore :V
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Get off this thread then, or ignore my posts.
Look, I'm sorry for trying to be positive. I'm sorry for trying to look at the good side. I'm sorry for not fixating on the bad side of the fandom. It's not that I deny the fact we have a bad side, I'm just not zooming in on the negative side of our fandom.
Sorry, I just hate being negative when it comes to furries. I hate seeing so much negativity about us. ...even from FURRIES no less. I'm sorry that I'm just trying to defend furries, I just don't like feeling like a terrible person because even furries want to be as negative about furries as possible, so of course I'm going to be defensive. Is that really wrong that I don't want to feel like a terrible person, so I try to see the bright side instead of the negative side all the time. I'm sorry if it feels like I'm jumping down your throat a lot, I just don't like being told by every person I meet, even people who are supposed to be furries, that you're a terrible person.
Look, I'm sorry for starting a fight, I just don't like having the furry hate follow me everywhere I go. But you're right, it's not my place to decide what people say or not. Please don't hate me.
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I have to say, I loved Zootopia, a lot. But I really almost wish furries would stop pandering it as Disney acknowledging the fandom.
I've seen so many articles lately taking advantage of this. I went on Yahoo, and there was an article talking about it, and then going on to say that "If this is true, then Disney must condone the already 100+ images of Zootopia Yiff that exist." With an actual link to Judy in a very revealing situation.
Sometimes I really do agree with the axiom "furries ruin everything" x.x
Sure that's just the media spinning things in a bad light but really, we do it to ourselves.
I don't understand how someone can ruin something just by making adult material based on that something's characters, who's physical features and/or capabilities are found attractive by that someone.
(Sorry if that whole sentence is difficult to grasp, I swear English is my first and only language. XD Ugh that was a little bit of grammatical gymnastics...)
Going back to Mass Effect real quick, I really love the Geth. They're very highly intelligent and quick to process and relay information, super strong and tough, can endure extremes that most others species couldn't... plus I personally just like their looks. Would I be somehow ruining the Geth by drawing a one in a lewd position or whatever? What about non-furry pornographers, are they ruining Humans by making their products depicting Humans? I really don't think so, on both counts.
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I have to say, I loved Zootopia, a lot. But I really almost wish furries would stop pandering it as Disney acknowledging the fandom.
I've seen so many articles lately taking advantage of this. I went on Yahoo, and there was an article talking about it, and then going on to say that "If this is true, then Disney must condone the already 100+ images of Zootopia Yiff that exist." With an actual link to Judy in a very revealing situation.
Sometimes I really do agree with the axiom "furries ruin everything" x.x
Sure that's just the media spinning things in a bad light but really, we do it to ourselves.
I don't understand how someone can ruin something just by making adult material based on that something's characters, who's physical features and/or capabilities are found attractive by that someone.
(Sorry if that whole sentence is difficult to grasp, I swear English is my first and only language. XD Ugh that was a little bit of grammatical gymnastics...)
Going back to Mass Effect real quick, I really love the Geth. They're very highly intelligent and quick to process and relay information, super strong and tough, can endure extremes that most others species couldn't... plus I personally just like their looks. Would I be somehow ruining the Geth by drawing a one in a lewd position or whatever? What about non-furry pornographers, are they ruining Humans by making their products depicting Humans? I really don't think so, on both counts.
There's so much common sense in this post, I swear.
i know I'm going into psychology or something here ,but nobody else can ruin something for you only you can ruin something for yourself. I fully agree that there are some Furries who do take things a little far ,but that does not bug me because I don't let it 'ruin' my own enjoyment of the furry fandom. (speaking of that is Furries or furry as in the fandom a proper noun by English standards?
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Now, I can understand that idea of "ruining everything" if there's a really high percentage of people just drawing naughty Zootopia or whatever stuff just to annoy or disgust those who aren't interested in that kind of content, (that's kinda what I think the basis of rule thirty four is all about) I don't think that kinda thing is nearly as prevalent as furries who are legitimately interested in the characters.
There's so much common sense in this post, I swear.
Thanks, I guess. XD
I know I'm going into psychology or something here ,but nobody else can ruin something for you only you can ruin something for yourself. I fully agree that there are some Furries who do take things a little far ,but that does not bug me because I don't let it 'ruin' my own enjoyment of the furry fandom. (speaking of that is Furries or furry as in the fandom a proper noun by English standards?
I like that way of thinking. Also, I don't think either are technically proper nouns, but you might catch me capitalising them sometimes. Just like how I capitalise the names of species, like Wolf or Dragon or whatever. I do that intentionally and all the time though, even if it's probably something an English major might be critical of.
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I have to say, I loved Zootopia, a lot. But I really almost wish furries would stop pandering it as Disney acknowledging the fandom.
I've seen so many articles lately taking advantage of this. I went on Yahoo, and there was an article talking about it, and then going on to say that "If this is true, then Disney must condone the already 100+ images of Zootopia Yiff that exist." With an actual link to Judy in a very revealing situation.
Sometimes I really do agree with the axiom "furries ruin everything" x.x
Sure that's just the media spinning things in a bad light but really, we do it to ourselves.
I don't understand how someone can ruin something just by making adult material based on that something's characters, who's physical features and/or capabilities are found attractive by that someone.
(Sorry if that whole sentence is difficult to grasp, I swear English is my first and only language. XD Ugh that was a little bit of grammatical gymnastics...)
Going back to Mass Effect real quick, I really love the Geth. They're very highly intelligent and quick to process and relay information, super strong and tough, can endure extremes that most others species couldn't... plus I personally just like their looks. Would I be somehow ruining the Geth by drawing a one in a lewd position or whatever? What about non-furry pornographers, are they ruining Humans by making their products depicting Humans? I really don't think so, on both counts.
There's so much common sense in this post, I swear.
i know I'm going into psychology or something here ,but nobody else can ruin something for you only you can ruin something for yourself. I fully agree that there are some Furries who do take things a little far ,but that does not bug me because I don't let it 'ruin' my own enjoyment of the furry fandom. (speaking of that is Furries or furry as in the fandom a proper noun by English standards?
I am Benny Bunnycorn, and I approve this message.
I'm not sure if it is or not.
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Thank you guys for keeping the discussion civil. It's nice to see a debate not turn into a flame war or locked/ taken down because of "hurt feels" for once.
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The one thing I never understood was how haters say "I searched up furries on Google and saw lots of porn" yet I myself, searched furries on Google and I just got people hanging out with friends in fursuits. So I have no idea where they're coming from. Course when was sex ever a bad thing? Sure it's abnormal to look at pictures of authors humping each other, but if someone likes looking at that stuff, does it really involve you? It's not hurting you so why treat it negatively? Just my thoughts.
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The one thing I never understood was how haters say "I searched up furries on Google and saw lots of porn" yet I myself, searched furries on Google and I just got people hanging out with friends in fursuits. So I have no idea where they're coming from. Course when was sex ever a bad thing? Sure it's abnormal to look at pictures of authors humping each other, but if someone likes looking at that stuff, does it really involve you? It's not hurting you so why treat it negatively? Just my thoughts.
I can answer that in 3 words: Haters gonna hate.
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The one thing I never understood was how haters say "I searched up furries on Google and saw lots of porn" yet I myself, searched furries on Google and I just got people hanging out with friends in fursuits. So I have no idea where they're coming from. Course when was sex ever a bad thing? Sure it's abnormal to look at pictures of authors humping each other, but if someone likes looking at that stuff, does it really involve you? It's not hurting you so why treat it negatively? Just my thoughts.
I agree with you to a point. Whatever porn people are looking at, I really don't care, and I don't really consider myself a prude. If an image or images gets somebody off, whatever, more power to them. If it makes them and/or their partner happy, who am I to judge? However, with all the furry porn littered all over the internet for everybody to see, this is almost akin to a furry's private self-stimulation session taking place in Times Square streamed live on CNN.
You wouldn't introduce yourself to somebody you haven't met before by saying, "hi there, let me tell you about my favorite 'toys.'" This is essentially what the furry community is doing with our current online presence. Maybe not because of you, certainly not because of me, but a lot of furries are and it reflects on us as a whole. Honestly it probably isn't even the porn that is the problem, just the lack of discretion with regards to people sharing it.
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The one thing I never understood was how haters say "I searched up furries on Google and saw lots of porn" yet I myself, searched furries on Google and I just got people hanging out with friends in fursuits. So I have no idea where they're coming from. Course when was sex ever a bad thing? Sure it's abnormal to look at pictures of authors humping each other, but if someone likes looking at that stuff, does it really involve you? It's not hurting you so why treat it negatively? Just my thoughts.
I agree with you to a point. Whatever porn people are looking at, I really don't care, and I don't really consider myself a prude. If an image or images gets somebody off, whatever, more power to them. If it makes them and/or their partner happy, who am I to judge? However, with all the furry porn littered all over the internet for everybody to see, this is almost akin to a furry's private self-stimulation session taking place in Times Square streamed live on CNN.
You wouldn't introduce yourself to somebody you haven't met before by saying, "hi there, let me tell you about my favorite 'toys.'" This is essentially what the furry community is doing with our current online presence. Maybe not because of you, certainly not because of me, but a lot of furries are and it reflects on us as a whole. Honestly it probably isn't even the porn that is the problem, just the lack of discretion with regards to people sharing it.
This is exactly my view.
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By "littered all over the Internet", I'm guessing you're referring to the drawings being found on image searching sites, and not on places like Fur Affinity.
I might not know exactly how search engines work, but I imagine they look around for keywords and stuff. So if someone looks on Google images for "Zootopia Fox" and winds up finding questionable stuff of him, it's the 'fault' of the engine getting those images from places like DeviantART, e621, and Weasyl thanks to the keywords beside those drawings.
The artists who draw those things and upload them to the aforementioned art sites only really intend for them to be found through searching and browsing on said art sites. I just can't realistically imagine a large number of us going around posting this stuff where nobody's asking for them, or perhaps doing something like Google bombing or whatever in order to get the adult content to the top results of searches. And if that really is something that some people do, how many of them are actually furries and not just Internet trolls attempting to shock people and trying to make us look bad?
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He has a point.
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By "littered all over the Internet", I'm guessing you're referring to the drawings being found on image searching sites, and not on places like Fur Affinity.
I might not know exactly how search engines work, but I imagine they look around for keywords and stuff. So if someone looks on Google images for "Zootopia Fox" and winds up finding questionable stuff of him, it's the 'fault' of the engine getting those images from places like DeviantART, e621, and Weasyl thanks to the keywords beside those drawings.
The artists who draw those things and upload them to the aforementioned art sites only really intend for them to be found through searching and browsing on said art sites. I just can't realistically imagine a large number of us going around posting this stuff where nobody's asking for them, or perhaps doing something like Google bombing or whatever in order to get the adult content to the top results of searches. And if that really is something that some people do, how many of them are actually furries and not just Internet trolls attempting to shock people and trying to make us look bad?
I would agree with you if these images didn't pop up with very basic, innocuous Google image search terms. Most of the time they pop up in the first ten rows of results, usually more than once. Obviously I won't repeat what the terms are since I don't want to break any forum rules, but you don't have to go looking specifically for it to see it get plastered on your display. If somebody gets all curious and is like, "hmmm... I bet that kind of art would be cool/cute/neat/whatever" and sees things they can't unsee without intending to, you're going to get another person that subscribes to the view that "furries are in it for the sex." And really, with that kind of introductory experience, can you really blame them? First impressions, and all that.
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By "littered all over the Internet", I'm guessing you're referring to the drawings being found on image searching sites, and not on places like Fur Affinity.
I might not know exactly how search engines work, but I imagine they look around for keywords and stuff. So if someone looks on Google images for "Zootopia Fox" and winds up finding questionable stuff of him, it's the 'fault' of the engine getting those images from places like DeviantART, e621, and Weasyl thanks to the keywords beside those drawings.
The artists who draw those things and upload them to the aforementioned art sites only really intend for them to be found through searching and browsing on said art sites. I just can't realistically imagine a large number of us going around posting this stuff where nobody's asking for them, or perhaps doing something like Google bombing or whatever in order to get the adult content to the top results of searches. And if that really is something that some people do, how many of them are actually furries and not just Internet trolls attempting to shock people and trying to make us look bad?
I would agree with you if these images didn't pop up with very basic, innocuous Google image search terms. Most of the time they pop up in the first ten rows of results, usually more than once. Obviously I won't repeat what the terms are since I don't want to break any forum rules, but you don't have to go looking specifically for it to see it get plastered on your display. If somebody gets all curious and is like, "hmmm... I bet that kind of art would be cool/cute/neat/whatever" and sees things they can't unsee without intending to, you're going to get another person that subscribes to the view that "furries are in it for the sex." And really, with that kind of introductory experience, can you really blame them? First impressions, and all that.
Worst part: some of these people then join the fandom, actually believing its purely about sex and "being deviant" (That second half is a quote from someone who made an account here BTW). Its not just outsiders who believe furry is a sex thing.
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Worst part: some of these people then join the fandom, actually believing its purely about sex and "being deviant" (That second half is a quote from someone who made an account here BTW). Its not just outsiders who believe furry is a sex thing.
Then it becomes a self-sustaining cycle. Furries churn out porn and put it everywhere, sex-minded furries join the fandom for spank-fodder, furries then churn out more porn and put it everywhere. It is like the circle of life, only worse.
And yeah, I have seen many a thread started in the RP section by people obviously looking to get some. Again, not really judging that desire, but can't we get a little more discretion and a little more looking for venues that are more appropriate for that sort of thing?
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I would agree with you if these images didn't pop up with very basic, innocuous Google image search terms. Most of the time they pop up in the first ten rows of results, usually more than once. Obviously I won't repeat what the terms are since I don't want to break any forum rules, but you don't have to go looking specifically for it to see it get plastered on your display. If somebody gets all curious and is like, "hmmm... I bet that kind of art would be cool/cute/neat/whatever" and sees things they can't unsee without intending to, you're going to get another person that subscribes to the view that "furries are in it for the sex." And really, with that kind of introductory experience, can you really blame them? First impressions, and all that.
Well, I still don't see how that's really anybody's fault. Unless somebody or some group of people intentionally manipulates Google search results in some way in order to make the most shocking things appear. I think it's just a side effect of search engine Spiders and algorithms and whatnot. The only way this problem would not happen is if furry artists never posted their stuff anywhere that Google Spiders can reach... which is pretty much everywhere, I think.
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Not to mention if people refuse to understand that furries aren't just sex perverts, then they've got problems themselves.
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Not to mention if people refuse to understand that furries aren't just sex perverts, then they've got problems themselves.
People are going to make judgments about things based upon the evidence that they are given, even if the evidence is shaky at best. It is not like the whole "furries are pervs" thing came out of nowhere. If people are shown concrete evidence that furries aren't just in it to get their rocks off and still refuse to believe that, then I would consider it absolutely their problem. I do think things are getting better in that regard though, for what it is worth.
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Not to mention if people refuse to understand that furries aren't just sex perverts, then they've got problems themselves.
People are going to make judgments about things based upon the evidence that they are given, even if the evidence is shaky at best. It is not like the whole "furries are pervs" thing came out of nowhere. If people are shown concrete evidence that furries aren't just in it to get their rocks off and still refuse to believe that, then I would consider it absolutely their problem. I do think things are getting better in that regard though, for what it is worth.
I've always been kind of peaved by the whole "furries ruin everything," theory. To be honest, it feels like "only things with anthropomorphic goodguys are allowed to be ruined." This whole deal, in all honesty, kind of ruined a lot of things for me that DON'T involve anthropomorphic characters/have only anthropomorphic villains. Megaman X, Megaman Zero, Kid Icarus Uprising, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagan, The World Ends With You, I honestly have a large list of things. Is that wrong? People seem to think it's fine that "Furries" or "Wolfaboos" can ruin something, yet not right-wing huntaboos or humanaboos.