The Furry Forums
Furry Chat => General => Topic started by: Ara Av-Toa on May 09, 2018, 08:30:33 AM
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I'm rather curious about just how many of the forum's users are religious. I do not intend to claim that any religion is "less" or should be seen as such, and therefore I ask you to handle this topic with all respect. I allow you to discuss your beliefs and ideas here, but I want you to avoid arguing and diminishing if possible. Nobody should force anyone to vote or come out- keep in mind this can be a very fragile subject for some people and I wish for anonymous voting to be completely possible.
As for me, I'm a Christian and all the world is allowed to know it. I got baptised on Sunday 29 April, but I do not feel like there has been a massive change in my life since then. I'm open for any questions or discussions, but you can't change my mind over Who I follow.
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I don't subscribe to any particular belief, but I don't have a lack thereof either.
I should point out that atheism is not a religion:
https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/about-atheism/
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I'm Atheist-Agnostic.
Which basically just means Atheist.
The full explanation is:
I can't be certain whether one or another religion is true or not (and perhaps this is something I could never be certain of), however given my understanding of the world I choose to believe that it is significantly more likely that no religious story is true, than that one is true.
I still consider it a belief, I can't prove that no spirituality exists or not, but in the same way I don't think anyone could prove that, its simply outside the range of science. Until someone figures out a way, this is the stance I'll take.
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I should point out that atheism is not a religion:
https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/about-atheism/
Well, it's not exactly a "religion" as most people would indicate one indeed. However, it is a belief system and in that aspect, it is belonging to the list.
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I'm rather curious about just how many of the forum's users are religious. I do not intend to claim that any religion is "less" or should be seen as such, and therefore I ask you to handle this topic with all respect. I allow you to discuss your beliefs and ideas here, but I want you to avoid arguing and diminishing if possible. Nobody should force anyone to vote or come out- keep in mind this can be a very fragile subject for some people and I wish for anonymous voting to be completely possible.
As for me, I'm a Christian and all the world is allowed to know it. I got baptised on Sunday 29 April, but I do not feel like there has been a massive change in my life since then. I'm open for any questions or discussions, but you can't change my mind over Who I follow.
I'm a Penacostal Christian, former asatru pegan. Got saved when I got threw in jail and had to set for 3 months, and (in my experience) i had a vision of the old gods u used to follow being brought low. Ex: Odin was blindfolded, those was withered to skin and bone, Loki was frozen in a block of ice. To completely simplify it.
And to comment on the not feeling a big change in your life because of the baptism thing, as my church explains it. You need two baptisms. One being of water and the other of the holy spirit. (Dosnt matter what order) and as long as you do this. And truly believe you are saved and the lord did it threw Jesus. That should change. (Preaching mode disengaged) hope that helped.
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I'm an atheist but I don't have a problem with religious folks. I'm not gonna convince them and they won't convince me.
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First of all: I find it very encouraging to see you give each other the space to talk about this. Much appreciated!
@Pyrus: I appreciate your addition and I know why your church would think that, but I believe something else. I'll explain the what and why from my POV: I feel like I practically already made the decision to devote my life to God beforehand and the bapthesism was mostly to confirm and testify. Besides, I don't see any bapthesism as "a miracle that immediately and drastically changes your life". In addition, the terms "receiving the Spirit" and "bapthesised in the Spirit" are synonymous to me.
I hope this clears things up and you don't pick it up the wrong way.
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I would never take offence, not unless u attacked lol. But the baptism in the spirit thing. They are synonymous.
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Good to hear you won't take offence and ok, at least we have that in common. Question remains, did this sufficiently explain it?
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It did. But on the topic of not 'feeling different. It's odd. For some they feel it right away others, it's like filling a bucket with an eye dropper. Just keep praying. That's what helps me. But I found the lord in jail. So I'm sure it's different circumstances as well
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All we can say for sure is that God goes a different way with everyone.
I don't want to ruin things, but I think we should wrap this discussion up.
I don't want to discourage others to post.
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As you wish.:)
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Other - Pagan soft polytheist. Essentially, the concept of "all gods are one God," or the idea that every name/face that's been used for divinity is an aspect or facet of the same Divine energy and entity. (I usually call upon my Goddess because I connect to Her easiest, but I've been known to call upon specific gods and goddesses for specific purposes.)
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If I may ask who do you worship?
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Anna, you're not the only one. I remember well when I got baptised. All that happened at that moment was that I felt more myself, if that makes sense. It's not like everything suddenly changes now that you're baptised. It takes time for things to change. Baptism is not a magic act or event. Looking back I notice a few differences in how I approach the topic of Christianity from when I was baptised three years ago, and it's still a work in progress. :pout:
Changes tend to come gradually, sometimes it goes relatively fast and sometimes it seems like nothing is happening for months. This counts for both Christianity and other areas in my life. Of course, sometimes there are sudden changes overnight, but those tend to be exceptions. Just saying: it took over 2.5 years after my baptism to confirm that Christian animism is indeed the path I should take with 100% certainty. Sure took long enough!
Bottom line is that you're likely gonna need patience. I don't know how much, and you may surely ask God to give you a sign, but you'll probably need it. Sometimes you just need to wait, or sometimes you're required to just take your time. You can't rush everything. I know it can be annoying (really, I've been there). But, I believe sincerely with all of my heart, that if you stay patient and keep learning and searching, sometime you will find something. I do not know what, nor do I know when. But trust me, sometime you WILL find something. :)
I wish you the best of luck, and may God's grace shine over you on your journey and protect you.
Michen
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Thanks, bro.
Can't say but you nailed it.
@Dragonheart: Interesting... sounds like it's an adaptation of buddhism, which states that "there's some God in everything".
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@Pyrus: As I said, it varies from ritual to ritual and prayer to prayer. Most of the time I just call on a generic "my Goddess," because I connect to Her best - She's kind of hard to describe, I guess? She's kind of similar to the Christian God in the sense of being an all-encompassing and ultimately loving deity, but also... different somehow. Or maybe not; I don't know - it's been years since I really connected to the Abrahamic God at all.
I may call on different names for specific prayers, however. I've pulled from a variety of pantheons, but because I know the most about Greek, Egyptian, and Norse mythology, those are the ones I draw from most often. I prayed to Bastet to heal my young cat when she sprained her paw a week or so ago (a prayer which was promptly answered), and I frequently pray to and offer libations to Poseidon to prevent seasickness (I get seasick ridiculously easy, but I've found that trading Poseidon milk for nausea prevention works surprisingly well).
@Anna Steen: I... can't say I know a lot about Buddhism, so I can't really comment, haha! I certainly haven't pulled from it intentionally, though I wouldn't be surprised if there were parallels. If anything, I actually got a lot of my spirituality from Wicca, the religion I used to identify with but have since grown away from. There's quite a bit that's changed since I stopped using the Wiccan label, though, so.
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Was just curious, but a word of warning from a former pegan. Be cautious, for the gods are fickle fickle beings
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"I don't subscribe to any particular belief, but I don't have a lack thereof either"
Well, that explains my beliefs
Not following any religion, but not atheist either. I'm just spiritual. Not any type in particular, just plain spiritual.
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I should point out that atheism is not a religion:
https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/about-atheism/
Well, it's not exactly a "religion" as most people would indicate one indeed. However, it is a belief system and in that aspect, it is belonging to the list.
Ah, actually, I must correct you here. Atheism is not a 'belief system', it is 'lack of a belief in any God/Gods". If it is a lack said thing, it cannot also be the thing. Atheists can subscribe to a many variety of belief systems. The link above actually addresses this, so I would encourage you to read it. You can also be atheistic AND be religious, as not all religions require god beliefs.
As far as belief systems, many (but not all) atheists are Humanists--that is a belief system (and still not a religion). A more fair, suggested revision to the poll answer would be to change 'Atheism' to "none", or "none" (Atheist).
I, personally, am an atheist and an anti-theist. This does not mean that I hate all theists or anything like that. I don't. I will speak against religion, but not religious people. I respect the person, not the belief. That being said, if anyone cares to discuss my position or any of these topics in more detail, I'd be happy to do that, but for the sake of this specific topic, I just wanted to give my thoughts on the clarification.
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Interesting how religiously diverse the community is on here. For me, I think it's complicated. I was raised atheist or at least agnostic, found my faith in my early teens when I joined a mainstream protestant church. I fell from faith in my mid-twenties and became a practising Theravada buddhist in my early thirties. I am still quite interested in Christian and Jewish theology and do feel somewhat attached to the Catholic Church, their traditions and institutions even though I don't believe in the doctrine.
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I myself am not a particularly religious person. I was raised christian and spent my Sundays as a child between Methodist and nondenominational churches, and even spent time as chaplian's aide when I was still in Scouts. However it wasn't until the family started attending catholic mass that I started falling out of faith as it were. While I myself do not subscribe to a religion (nor am I looking for one to be a part of really.) There is something to be said for the practice of Ceremony and Ritual to put one's self in a particular mind set to accomplish something. And if it helps you with one or more aspects of your life then it is a valid enough reason to be of a faith.
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Ah, actually, I must correct you here. Atheism is not a 'belief system', it is 'lack of a belief in any God/Gods". If it is a lack said thing, it cannot also be the thing. Atheists can subscribe to a many variety of belief systems. The link above actually addresses this, so I would encourage you to read it. You can also be atheistic AND be religious, as not all religions require god beliefs.
I'd have to argue that atheism IS part of a belief system, but not a religion. Why? Simply because atheists believe that there's no god, which is equal to the lack of believe in any god or gods. Yet, despite it not being a religion, it fits in a list of religions exactly because it detones something about how you think about god(s) and because it is easier to tell this apart from other beliefs without gods that would also fit on a list of religions. A list of belief systems would be... very extensive. Atheism is not the only part of the belief system because a belief system can also contain things like spirituality and whatnot.
Let's compare this to asexuality for a sec, just to get the point. Asexuality is part of a sexuality, but not a sexual orientation. This because it's part of a sexuality that denotes a lack of sexual orientation towards others. Asexuality can be listed on a list of sexual orientations because the list is about who you're attracted to. It's easier to tell asexuality apart from sexual orientations by simply putting it on the list as asexuality. Of course, there's far more to sexuality than just that. A list mentioning specific sexualities wouldn't work because specific sexualities between two heterosexuals could be very different (think of what traits of the opposite sex are more attractive, as ONE example).
Side notes:
'Religion' and 'belief system' are sometimes used interchangeably.
'Sexuality' and 'sexual orientation' are often used interchangeably.
Wow, I did not put any jokes in this post.
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That was indeed what I meant by saying that... You believe there is no God. You may disagree, but there's just no way a human does not believe at all. Also in a spiritual sense.
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Gotta disagree with you guys on a point; not believing that a god exists isn’t the same thing as believing that no god exists. It’s true that some atheists believe that no god exists (this sometimes called strong atheism, hard atheism, or gnostic atheism), but others simply do not believe (called weak atheism, soft atheism, or agnostic atheism).
I myself am an agnostic atheist, meaning that am not convinced that any gods exist. And while I’m convinced that certain gods don’t exist (like Zeus), I’m not entirely convinced that NO gods exist.
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I see what you're getting at. One could indeed say that 'not believing' is a thing in this regard, however I know weak atheists are atheists mostly because they don't take the time to think about what they believe. Therefore, I daresay they subconciously believe there's nothing worthwhile to believe in, except the world around them.
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Those are some pretty presumptuous assertions! I for one have given a LOT of thought to the subject, and continue to do so on an almost daily basis. In my experience that’s true for a lot of weak atheists. Some of the deepest thinkers on the subject I’ve met have been weak atheists.
I suppose you could say that I/we feel that there’s nothing worth believing in aside from the world around us, in the sense that I/we feel that it’s not worth believing in anything without sufficient supporting evidence, which we think is lacking for gods. But that’s not the same as what you seem to be saying, that atheists actually believe there is no god, even if they claim otherwise.
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Whoops... Looks like I've confused soft atheism with methodological atheism there. Sorry!
Anyway, the debate we have here is: is "not believing in gods" equal to "believing there's no god"? Well, I would say "Yes". The point I'm making is, in both cases you essentially reject God (according to Matt. 12:30) and as such come down to the same thing. In the first situation, you are just not absolute in your statement.
By the way, if it's proof you're looking for, you're out of luck.
Let's be honest: I'm a christian and not even I can prove God. On the other hand, I can't disprove Him either.
Otherwise said: I can give arguments, but no proof, no matter how hard I try.
That's something basically everyone should be able to agree with.
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Gotta disagree with you guys on a point; not believing that a god exists isn’t the same thing as believing that no god exists. It’s true that some atheists believe that no god exists (this sometimes called strong atheism, hard atheism, or gnostic atheism), but others simply do not believe (called weak atheism, soft atheism, or agnostic atheism).
Fair enough. There indeed is a difference between not believing in a god because you don't know what to believe (or if there's even something to believe in) or because you're still searching for an answer and not believing in a god because you believe that god doesn't exist. I wasn't thinking about that when I was posting. I'm sorry for that.
Despite that my post also counts for agnostics. In a sense agnosticism is part of a belief system too: one wherein it is unknown/unclear what should be believed. For the sake of the metaphore: it could best be described with answering the question about sexual orientation with 'Questioning'. Not exactly a sexual orientation, but still worthy of being a seperate point on the list of sexual orientation when mentioned (for convenience' sake) and still a part of one's sexuality. Though, in this case, 'agnostic' and 'atheism' can both share a point on the list whereas 'asexuality' and 'questioning' rarely can.
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Michen: I agree that atheism and/or agnosticism should be on the list. When the question is “what’s your religion,” “I don’t have one,” is a valid answer.
Anna: Try thinking about it this way: Imagine I have a jar full of gumballs. Assuming I haven’t cheated by putting in half a gumball or something, there are only two possibilities, an even number or an odd number. You can’t see all the gumballs, because it’s a big jar and they’re packed in tight, nor can you open the jar. Do you believe the number of gumballs is even or odd? Or do you believe neither? Bear in mind, I’m not asking you to guess. I’m asking what you are or are not convinced is true.
Saying that you don’t believe there are an odd number of gumballs isn’t the same as saying you believe there are an even number. Likewise, rejecting the claim that a god exists doesn’t make soft atheism and hard atheism the same any more than rejecting the claim that there is no god makes soft atheism and theism the same.
EDIT: That said, strong and weak atheists tend to have more in common philosophically than either do with theists, so it’s usually fine to lump them together unless we’re making those finer distinctions.
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Please stay on topic. Regardless of how you define atheism, I think it's generally understood what the poll is asking. If we can't keep from turning this thread into a debate, it will be locked.
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Well, we talked enough about it now anyway, so...
Let's just set it aside.