The Furry Forums
Furry Chat => Rants and Advice => Topic started by: SadDubwool on November 19, 2015, 01:08:22 AM
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I'm getting kinda annoyed with all the racism I hear and see around, especially ones relating to me or my girlfriends race, Why must the human race be so prejudicial to things they individually see as "Different" it's complete bull!
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Anything that is different is considered unfavorable by a lot of people. Race, class, weight, sex, anything else. It all boils down to who is the accussor, and who is being accused. There's not much we can do besides move on, and leave those people in the dust.
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I can't exactly say that there is any one simple reason to racism; there are a plethora of reasons for people to become one. Simply stating that it's because they "fear the unknown" or because "they're stupid" over simplifies the issue and sets up further problems down the road.
The best thing to do is try to understand why they are racist, and try to target that.
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The best thing to do is try to understand why they are racist, and try to target that.
Bingo. As much as it's entertaining to gang up and bash racists like they're subhuman, we need to figure out how to attack the problem, not the people.
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Anything that is different is considered unfavorable by a lot of people. Race, class, weight, sex, anything else. It all boils down to who is the accussor, and who is being accused. There's not much we can do besides move on, and leave those people in the dust.
Easier said than done when racism, much like other issues such as transphobia, are institutionalized and affect people on the day to day regardless of whether or not those people "move on."
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Well, there are a variety of reasons someone would be racist. Maybe he grew up in a family that was racist, maybe he had some friends, or listened to a media, that was racist. Maybe he had personal experience, and generalized his personal experience to the overall race. Either way, Silentium and George, how exactly do you plan on fixing that issue? I'm legitimately curious.
A long-term solution is required, but it's with education and so forth, not much a single wo/man can do to progress that claim. But a short-term solution would be to ignore it and avoid those people. If they cause any harm or danger to come to you, or do anything illegal, then contacting the authorities is the surest thing to do.
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Either way, Silentium and George, how exactly do you plan on fixing that issue?
I don't think I said I had any idea how. XD I just hoped by expressing my opinion on use of this thread, we might get some useful info on how we might.
Maybe he had personal experience, and generalized his personal experience to the overall race.
This is the most common reason I've seen, quite possibly because it's the easiest to make excuses for in this day and age. The only thing I can think of that would help is if the person got to know a more diverse group of friends, but that kind of requires them to not have the problem in the first place...
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Either way, Silentium and George, how exactly do you plan on fixing that issue?
I'm on the same boat as George; I didn't have a plan of action in mind.
Maybe he had personal experience, and generalized his personal experience to the overall race.
This is the most common reason I've seen, quite possibly because it's the easiest to make excuses for in this day and age. The only thing I can think of that would help is if the person got to know a more diverse group of friends, but that kind of requires them to not have the problem in the first place...
I'm definitely going to get some flak here, but I have to shed some light on why people turn into racists for this reason.
Now, I'm not condoning the act of racism, or saying that it's acceptable. But rather that people who turn into racists for such reasons are misunderstood.
I have an older brother who went to 2 different colleges in the span of two years. In both cases, his experiences with the blacks were horrible. He's always been a smart and political person, so when the experiences came, so did a change in ideas. When he found out that blacks had affirmative action and substantially higher financial aid, that's when things really hit the fan.
What I'm trying to get across is that racism goes much deeper than a hatred of skin color. When you've been told all your life to not be a racist, just to get involved in many such encounters, and then find out all of the aid they receive, of course the "its only situational" reasoning will get thrown out the door.
But what happens when people even remotely consider you to be a racist? Is there any sort of debate, reasoning, or understanding going on? Quite simply, no. The most typical result is to get called a "stupid, racist, conservative." But this completely censors the person, and stops any sort of discussion form happening. The person is also shunned, which isn't good. So not only does the person feel lied to because it is perceived that the blacks act horribly, but also he/she is silenced and shunned. That combo of being lied to, silenced, and shunned builds up into something greater. And when you gather enough such people? Eventually it explodes into something more devastating.
The censorship of others is a major problem in of itself as well. When you deny a conversation to happen, you deny the possibility to expose underlining issues; you harm yourself as well as the other guy. If someone is racist because he had bad experiences with black people, well, what caused those bad experiences? Were they the situation thing, or is it more widespread? If it's more widespread, why so? If it is a situational thing, how can we convince the person that it was only situational? And so on and so forth.
All of this goes back to my original point; racism is a much deeper issue. You must do a better job of understanding why people become racist. Then, tackle such issues. Tackling such issues may even solve additional problems that was not foreseen. Not doing any of this builds up into something far greater and graver. Might as well nip it in the butt now before, well, it becomes that big problem.
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Well the point is if someone uses personal experiences to prove a point, there really isn't much you can argue against. For example, in your brothers case, it doesn't matter what we say, he'd use his personal experience as a counter-argument and any personal experience can be remembered differently and what-not. Basically, personal experience should never be evidence for such a wide-spreading claim as racism. SO this is generally why "I had personal experience against this race!" doesn't usually fly in debates.
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While it is true that anecdotal evidence can't be the only form of evidence used, it's typically (a) the starting point of racism and (b) isn't the only form evidence used. I slightly touched on this in my previous post, but I wasn't explicit with it. Essentially, what happens if the person starts to bring up other things as well as anecdotal evidence? Plus, simply going "it's anecdotal so it doesn't count" is extremely condescending to the layman (though in the case of my brother he isn't a layman, so this one doesn't apply to my case).
I'm trying to display a message but without explicitly stating what I'm trying to get across, for fear that I will start some sort of shite-storm. But you know what, I'm ending this tiptoeing around, because being explicit will be more optimal for me to get my point across.
I honestly believe that most modern day racism is not due to stupidity, but rather a reaction to the modern day black community; that being that the modern day black community is at a nadir of sorts. Lets face it, they're in no way, shape, or form in an objectively good condition. Crime rates are high, general education and higher education prospects are low, hell, even illiteracy is starting to become rampant. And of course, we can't mention this without stating how race relations have deteriorated for the first time since the Sixties. And yet, despite how the community isn't doing so hot, they receive more free aid then all other races, affirmative action in many occasions.
Now, let us step into the boots of some arbitrary person. Let's say that he/she is having financial struggles, troubles in college, a generally not so pleasant life overall. Now, he/she has bad encounters with people of the black community. Then, he/she goes home to read the news to find things such as rioting and looting in many of these BLM protests, the purposeful segregation through "safe spaces", crime, et cetera, et cetera. Now, he/she does some research online, and finds out that blacks receive more government help overall. Do you think that he or she will take too kindly to the black populace, knowing that they have a lot of protection but they don't really act well? Do you think that the "it's only a minority" or "it's just anecdotal" or "not all blacks" will be enough to persuade him/her? Ergo, back to my original idea: you must dig deeper and understand the roots.
Of course, when you say "it's only a minority," you inherently reject the idea that there are any underlining causes; that there is some sort of problem. You'll ignore the crime, the illiteracy, the schooling problems, and just about everything else that contributes to the problem. And with that, if you don't acknowledge that there are problems, you inherently accept that there will be nothing to solve, and thus nothing with get done to fix the issues.
Oh, and just a note, blaming everything on white people is essentially doing the same thing, but it's worse because you chase after erroneous solutions and conclusions that end up making the situation worse than it already is. Stuff like "Blacks don't cause more crime than other races because they have a crime problem, it's just because all cops are racists." Also, blaming stuff on whites only increases racism and racial deterioration, and it's basically scapegoating. I would agree that whites caused a lot of problems if we were seventy years in the past, but its 2015; almost all of those issues have been resolved.
What I'm trying to say is that if you shrug off someone's racism for whatever reason, you shrug off all of the problems associated with it. And when you do that? Well, it festers and becomes something large.
Race relations are deteriorating, people are becoming more racist, and nothing much is being done about it. This will built up into a greater problem, and you'd be a fool to believe that nothing will come as a result. As I've said before, it's better to suck it up now and do something about it before it's too late, because honestly, I don't want this to blow up.
Hopefully I was clear about my meaning, and hopefully this thread doesn't go down the crapper.
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While it is true that anecdotal evidence can't be the only form of evidence used, it's typically (a) the starting point of racism and (b) isn't the only form evidence used. I slightly touched on this in my previous post, but I wasn't explicit with it. Essentially, what happens if the person starts to bring up other things as well as anecdotal evidence? Plus, simply going "it's anecdotal so it doesn't count" is extremely condescending to the layman (though in the case of my brother he isn't a layman, so this one doesn't apply to my case).
I'm trying to display a message but without explicitly stating what I'm trying to get across, for fear that I will start some sort of shite-storm. But you know what, I'm ending this tiptoeing around, because being explicit will be more optimal for me to get my point across.
I honestly believe that most modern day racism is not due to stupidity, but rather a reaction to the modern day black community; that being that the modern day black community is at a nadir of sorts. Lets face it, they're in no way, shape, or form in an objectively good condition. Crime rates are high, general education and higher education prospects are low, hell, even illiteracy is starting to become rampant. And of course, we can't mention this without stating how race relations have deteriorated for the first time since the Sixties. And yet, despite how the community isn't doing so hot, they receive more free aid then all other races, affirmative action in many occasions.
Now, let us step into the boots of some arbitrary person. Let's say that he/she is having financial struggles, troubles in college, a generally not so pleasant life overall. Now, he/she has bad encounters with people of the black community. Then, he/she goes home to read the news to find things such as rioting and looting in many of these BLM protests, the purposeful segregation through "safe spaces", crime, et cetera, et cetera. Now, he/she does some research online, and finds out that blacks receive more government help overall. Do you think that he or she will take too kindly to the black populace, knowing that they have a lot of protection but they don't really act well? Do you think that the "it's only a minority" or "it's just anecdotal" or "not all blacks" will be enough to persuade him/her? Ergo, back to my original idea: you must dig deeper and understand the roots.
Of course, when you say "it's only a minority," you inherently reject the idea that there are any underlining causes; that there is some sort of problem. You'll ignore the crime, the illiteracy, the schooling problems, and just about everything else that contributes to the problem. And with that, if you don't acknowledge that there are problems, you inherently accept that there will be nothing to solve, and thus nothing with get done to fix the issues.
Oh, and just a note, blaming everything on white people is essentially doing the same thing, but it's worse because you chase after erroneous solutions and conclusions that end up making the situation worse than it already is. Stuff like "Blacks don't cause more crime than other races because they have a crime problem, it's just because all cops are racists." Also, blaming stuff on whites only increases racism and racial deterioration, and it's basically scapegoating. I would agree that whites caused a lot of problems if we were seventy years in the past, but its 2015; almost all of those issues have been resolved.
What I'm trying to say is that if you shrug off someone's racism for whatever reason, you shrug off all of the problems associated with it. And when you do that? Well, it festers and becomes something large.
Race relations are deteriorating, people are becoming more racist, and nothing much is being done about it. This will built up into a greater problem, and you'd be a fool to believe that nothing will come as a result. As I've said before, it's better to suck it up now and do something about it before it's too late, because honestly, I don't want this to blow up.
Hopefully I was clear about my meaning, and hopefully this thread doesn't go down the crapper.
You took everything I would say and then some. **censor** yeah; you can kick some ass in a debate/discussion my friend.
Now, Red, if people are being racist to you or Zaida, remember one thing: the words may hurt, but you can rise above them by telling the aggressors to **censor** right off or by leaving the discussion. If the harassment continues, you can contact the local authorities and resolve it that way. And if the harassment ever occurs to the forums, report it to us on the staff team and we will make sure it stops. Trust me when I say I'm tired of the rampant racism in the news as of late and the racist and ignorant protests occurring across the US. A solution will be reached, I can assure you.
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Racism is pretty crappy. Did you see the recent stuff a fake black lives matter activist did? She posted anonymous tweets falsifying harassment to justify anti-white hate. Racism's for leaders who want to promote a crappy agenda while discouraging thought and followers who don't want to think.
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Racism boils down to that person not liking something. Same thing with literally every other form of bad -ism. It's what that person learned, sadly and opinions like that often can't be changed. Bummer, really. People can't alter stuff like that easily, and it's very depressing to see some nit-wit hating them for it.
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Racism boils down to that person not liking something. Same thing with literally every other form of bad -ism. It's what that person learned, sadly and opinions like that often can't be changed. Bummer, really. People can't alter stuff like that easily, and it's very depressing to see some nit-wit hating them for it.
The problem comes when people with certain stereotypicaly beliefs are unwilling to learn or accept modern morals and values. If someone blindly believes that blacks, whites, Asians, Indians, Irish, Hispanics, or any other ethnicities, are inferior, I will naturally respect them less. It is especially astounding if someone who is very knowledgeable in most areas ends up being blatantly discriminatory against other people.
I will respect the people who are willing to change. However, if they are unwilling to change, or if they continue to spread concepts of discrimination, I cannot say that I pity them for perpetuating hate.
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The racism thing does swing both way however. There are those who do hate others for being different. However, there are also those who thrive off of the hate. People who will throw out the race card if something doesn't go their way, or to justify their actions. So one should be not only aware of racism, but also of the victim mentality. We're living in an age where more and more people are looking for something to be offended by in order to get 15 minutes of fame. We're also seeing people jumping to conclusions before learning the facts. In the Brown case in Ferguson, the 'Hands up, don't shoot' was proven to have not happened during that encounter and was proven by video that what the officer did was justified self defense, as opposed to those who got away with murder in the New York incident where Garner was suffocated to death by a group of officers and it was all caught on video. We need to be very careful to analyse situations before we start throwing around theories.
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I find myself wondering sometimes if people aren't just inherently racist on a basic level and what separates those who are racists and those who aren't is weather they as an individual embrace that and allow it to come out or don't see it as wrong or if they do see it as wrong and choose to be better than that and treat people equally.
No idea if it's true or if I believe it, just a random thought I have from time to time.
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I would say there's a difference between discrimination and racism, and that in some cases, often many, you use discrimination to survive, while racism is just the result of xenophobia, which is discrimination of those outside your ethnic (?) circle. It's not that people want to believe this often times, it's because they've been exposed to or told certain things about others and have not been able to accept any evidence against what they believe.
This is called confirmation bias and is probably why racism is so rampant today. I think its a fair thing to assess the historical contributions of individuals and maybe wonder how important certain technological advancements were in different cultures (Which can split to different races), but to blindly hate or think of another as inferior is a different story and is really the result of some really poor conditioning and expectations of certain people.
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Maybe racism simply exists because people cant accept the fact that are people who are different to them, so they feel like they must rally against them or just shun them.
I Would love to see a world where the specific race of a person is completely unimportant and we can all live as equal beings.
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Hatred, contempt, pity, and patronization are the words I remember Howard Zinn using to describe racism in one of his books. I disagree with pity, and I'm questioning patronization, but hatred and contempt are definitely correct. I haven't discriminated against any race, but I remember hating the entirety of the underclassmen student body when I was in middle school. Due to the way I saw them behave during the gym period, I felt (didn't think; I'll get to that later) that they were the dumbest little monkeys on the face of the planet. Even seeing one of them was enough to annoy me, and if one of them approached me, I would treat them with those exact two words that I agreed with: hatred and contempt. To be more specific, I treated them with hatred as a result of contempt; the feeling of thinking they're naturally inferior and that they deserved scorn. Of course, I didn't think this but felt this since I was judging the entirety of the lower grades based on what I felt when seeing a fraction of its boys, and not even the fraction I judged were as bad as I thought since I was just going by what I saw on the surface. After some thinking, I came to the conclusion that most underclassmen weren't that bad, and that the fraction I judged were, at the very most, just annoying and not inferior. I'd say that me judging this entire group of people with harsh, unfair feelings is the closest I've gotten towards racism.
Anyway, what I can gather from this experience is that racism is born out of what people feel, not think. Another important factor I've noticed from other people is the lack of nuanced reasoning when they are thinking about it. I remember one of my peers telling me that "Black people have never treated me with respect." He was going by his own personal experience with the small fraction of the entire race that he had met. It was also likely that he had met blacks who treated him with respect, but he just didn't consider them in his reasoning over the jerks he came across. Nuanced reasoning can go farther than just "Not all of them are bad." I remember one poster in this thread talking about his brother's jealously with affirmative action. For the sake of argument, let's suppose that we're against affirmative action. Even if we are, is that any reason to hate the people who receive the benefits? It's difficult to make it in this world, and they're just trying to get by on whatever opportunities they can get like we are. The proper course of action would be to go against the politicians who put affirmative action in place, not hate the people who are receiving the benefits.
Action based on feelings, lack of nuanced reasoning when using one's head, and I'm pretty sure ignorance also plays a role. I remember one KKK member shouting over a megaphone that the only reason why the blacks were free and had equal rights was because white people stood up for them. It's worth noting that white abolitionists during the pre-civil war era (with the exception of people like John Brown) were barely anti-slavery, and their support for the cause was often half-butted (in more polite terms). It was free blacks at the time such as Frederick Douglass who played important roles in the abolitionist movement. During the civil war, black regiments helped out with a lot of the fighting on the union side. Blacks who were enslaved would frequently disobey plantation owners by working slowly, breaking tools, and occasionally, try to escape and even attempt to form slave revolts. Needless to say, they were far from being subservient.
I hear people argue whether racism is natural or learned; I believe that it can either be learned, or triggered by personal experience and permitted to stay by lack of sufficient thought and not enough good information.