The Furry Forums
Furry Chat => Furry Freezer => Topic started by: Dante Zairou on November 16, 2015, 01:59:03 AM
-
So lately ive been hearing allot about religious this an religious that so i decided id like to debate the question of "is there a god?" I want this thread to be a mature debate about the existence or lack of , of an intelligent creator that is usually referenced in most "modern" religions
[/size]
[/size]please argue your points using facts and information that backs up your point
-
Not to be rude, but this subject is extremely volatile. I don't recommend the subject around here, at least.
And whether you find this rude or not, that formatting is obnoxious.
EDIT: You can edit your posts, if you want to change it.
-
I'm aware but I'm ready to lock the thread if need be and yes I'm aware how obnoxious that font is now that I look at it for the second time
-
If there is a god who is omniscient and benevolent, then why has humanity suffered the way it has in so many millennia?
If he is omniscient but not benevolent, and cannot stop death and destruction,then he is not a god.
If he is benevolent but not omniscient, and cannot see the chaos, then he is not a god.
If he is neither, and can do nothing to stop what he cannot see, then he is not a god.
"God works in mysterious ways" cannot account for the millions upon millions who die in horrid ways, and the people who continue to suffer a similar fate.
I've heard some say "Our Lord is a jealous god", to which I say that jealousy infringes upon the idea that a god would be perfection in the most holy form.
If there is a god, they are not perfect. They are not all-powerful, or maybe they aren't all-seeing. Maybe they just don't care anymore. I don't know if there is or isn't a divine entity, but if there is, they will hear no prayers from me. Not now.
-
If there is a god who is omniscient and benevolent, then why has humanity suffered the way it has in so many millennia?
If he is omniscient but not benevolent, and cannot stop death and destruction,then he is not a god.
If he is benevolent but not omniscient, and cannot see the chaos, then he is not a god.
If he is neither, and can do nothing to stop what he cannot see, then he is not a god.
"God works in mysterious ways" cannot account for the millions upon millions who die in horrid ways, and the people who continue to suffer a similar fate.
I've heard some say "Our Lord is a jealous god", to which I say that jealousy infringes upon the idea that a god would be perfection in the most holy form.
if there is a god, they are not perfect. They are not all-powerful, or maybe they aren't all-seeing. Maybe they just don't care anymore. I don't know if there is or isn't a divine entity, but if there is, they will hear no prayers from me. Not now.
+ 100
-
If there is a God, why is has he/she/it allowed terrorism? Why was Lebanon attacked long ago, and Paris attacked recently?
We are the people that influence the most. We are the real gods.
Don't leave it in gods hands, because Isis will pick it up!
Why has this "god" allowed biases such as that of the world against furries, and the KKK against Jews?
We can revolutionize the world, together. God isn't what unites us, but ideas.
If he truly did exist, then why is it that in order to show ourselves, we have to hide our faces?
Why is it left in the hands of groups such as Anonymous?
It is even more sickening because infestations of immature children must corrupt groups, looking away from the cause, and attempting to look "cool"
#OpParis
#OpKKK
#OpRevolutiom
-
If there is a God, why is has he/she/it allowed terrorism? Why was Lebanon attacked long ago, and Paris attacked recently?
We are the people that influence the most. We are the real gods.
Don't leave it in gods hands, because Isis will pick it up!
Why has this "god" allowed biases such as that of the world against furries, and the KKK against Jews?
We can revolutionize the world, together. God isn't what unites us, but ideas.
If he truly did exist, then why is it that in order to show ourselves, we have to hide our faces?
Why is it left in the hands of groups such as Anonymous?
It is even more sickening because infestations of immature children must corrupt groups, looking away from the cause, and attempting to look "cool"
#OpParis
#OpKKK
#OpRevolutiom
+ 1
-
If there is a God, why is has he/she/it allowed terrorism? Why was Lebanon attacked long ago, and Paris attacked recently?
We are the people that influence the most. We are...
+ 1
Oh I see how it is xP
-
yup, not as much love cause you got a fact wrong, kkk is a white supremacist group not anti Jew necessarily
-
yup, not as much love cause you got a fact wrong, kkk is a white supremacist group not anti Jew necessarily
That doesn't mean that they don't supress Jews -_-
I was simply stating that the Jews are suppressed by the KKK.
Just as one example in my litterary statement.
-
ok fair enough +9 more
-
So this is a very volatile and dangerous topic, and I sort of can already see where it's gonna go, but it hasn't gone out of hand yet, and I want to see if you guys can prove me wrong (I'm giving you all a chance). Don't attack peoples beliefs. Don't be rude. Stay civil. OR the thread will get locked and anyone who posts the rude comment, will be warned.
Here's my take on the matter though, really there is no deductive proof that can establish whether or not a god exists, and the claim is not falsifiable which means there's no way to conclusively test whether or not a god exists. So here's the claim.
God, if he exists, has created our universe, and thus his power can exist outside our logic. What is a paradox for us, would not necessarily be a paradox for him, so things like what Hollow said are not proofs against god, they're only proofs against a god that is bounded by the laws of our universe. ShirokuTheHusky's claim is also not proof against a god, he is commenting that he is not knowing of why such a god would do somethings, but that doesn't mean that a god cannot exist.
Really at the end of the day, no one can truly know whether or not a god exists, and it comes down to a choice. You can choose to believe whether a god exists or not, and neither claim is objectively less valid than the other. The scientific method would establish that we are not certain that a god exists, but it also establishes the idea that we are not certain he doesn't exist either, as Richard Feynman, famous Physicists, once said
I can live with doubt, and uncertainty, and not knowing. I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. I have approximate answers, and possible beliefs, and different degrees of certainty about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything. There are many things I don't know anything about, such as whether it means anything to ask "Why are we here?" I might think about it a little bit, and if I can't figure it out then I go on to something else. But I don't have to know an answer. I don't feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in the mysterious universe without having any purpose — which is the way it really is, as far as I can tell. Possibly. It doesn't frighten me.
-
So this is a very volatile and dangerous topic, and I sort of can already see where it's gonna go, but it hasn't gone out of hand yet, and I want to see if you guys can prove me wrong (I'm giving you all a chance). Don't attack peoples beliefs. Don't be rude. Stay civil. OR the thread will get locked and anyone who posts the rude comment, will be warned.
Here's my take on the matter though, really there is no deductive proof that can establish whether or not a god exists, and the claim is not falsifiable which means there's no way to conclusively test whether or not a god exists. So here's the claim.
God, if he exists, has created our universe, and thus his power can exist outside our logic. What is a paradox for us, would not necessarily be a paradox for him, so things like what Hollow said are not proofs against god, they're only proofs against a god that is bounded by the laws of our universe. ShirokuTheHusky's claim is also not proof against a god, he is commenting that he is not knowing of why such a god would do somethings, but that doesn't mean that a god cannot exist.
Really at the end of the day, no one can truly know whether or not a god exists, and it comes down to a choice. You can choose to believe whether a god exists or not, and neither claim is objectively less valid than the other. The scientific method would establish that we are not certain that a god exists, but it also establishes the idea that we are not certain he doesn't exist either, as Richard Feynman, famous Physicists, once said
I can live with doubt, and uncertainty, and not knowing. I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. I have approximate answers, and possible beliefs, and different degrees of certainty about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything. There are many things I don't know anything about, such as whether it means anything to ask "Why are we here?" I might think about it a little bit, and if I can't figure it out then I go on to something else. But I don't have to know an answer. I don't feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in the mysterious universe without having any purpose — which is the way it really is, as far as I can tell. Possibly. It doesn't frighten me.
my intention is to keep this thread professional and if if see any issues ill lock the thread so dont worry
-
Ok, a thought. If there is a God, I don't believe he is the christian god.
Because if a God was perfect, he would not have made the mistake of leaving adam and Eve in the situation that lead us to have sin in the world.
He also would not allow us to be sent to hell for not believing in him, because he would know that there is no significant proof on either side. Or he simply would be a little more visible, so we don't have to follow him out of fear.
-
Personally I'm quite agnostic, so my thoughts are kinda something like this;
If there is a God - ok cool.
If not - ok, doesn't change anything.
And on a less serious note: BREE! :D
-
Personally I'm quite agnostic, so my thoughts are kinda something like this;
If there is a God - ok cool.
If not - ok, doesn't change anything.
And on a less serious note: BREE! :D
This is more q thread where you state your stance on it and defend it some but ok
Also In response to you BREE!
-
I dunno bout y'all, but Satan and Cthulhu reign supreme in my book.
-
As long as you aren't hurting anyone, you're good.
May I ask why you believe they exist?
-
Personally? Chaos. Discorianism is my jam and peanut butter.
Hail Eris!
-
I've never heard of Discornianism before. What's it about?
-
It is an enigma of a religion. Basically it is a religion hidden in a joke, or a joke hidden in a religion, we can't decide which.
It started as a religion by a couple of guys who were in a bowling alley and met the goddess Eris. Its pretty fascinating and you shouldn't believe a word of it :P At least that's what the guidebook says. It says not to believe anything you read.
Discordianism is kind of like that.
-
interesting i guess
-
The real reason I follow it is because it is choice in a very constricting magical community. One group will say "You have to believe this and this or you aren't us.". Chaos magic is basically "Whatever the heck you want, if it works, go for it!"
To go personal, I consider Eris and Hel two of my patron goddesses, Pan/Bacchus/Ares/Odin/Thor my gods, and though I don't pray to them, I still use them in my work lightly. Mostly I don't do a lot of high magic stuff though, like big rituals so I don't need to appease them. I do sygil work and reiki.
-
I'm here to point out the most true statement I've seen in this thread.
Dante that format is uber obnoxious.
-
*facepaw* can people be a little more bitchy today , yes i realized it was after i posted the thread
But i dont need to be reminded of that , ive had my fill of complaining today already because i spent the day with my mother who wont shut up about what i did wrong or how im driving or whatever else she doesnt like
-
X3 I'm just playing man, I read that. I don't believe in any god.
-
Whatever...just dont "play" at my espense
-
I meant nothing by it, friend. I was unaware of your mood, and thought a little joke would be appropriate to lighten the mood of such a controversial thread. I apologize if I caused any discomfort in doing so.
-
I meant nothing by it, friend. I was unaware of your mood, and thought a little joke would be appropriate to lighten the mood of such a controversial thread. I apologize if I caused any discomfort in doing so.
So, in furbatim?
-
I meant nothing by it, friend. I was unaware of your mood, and thought a little joke would be appropriate to lighten the mood of such a controversial thread. I apologize if I caused any discomfort in doing so.
So, in furbatim?
And I believe that right there is proff enough that, if there is a god, he loves us. X3
-
I just realized I have been using the word verbatim wrong for several years.
-
Well, we all make mistakes.
-
Well, we all make mistakes.
Basis of the reason I don't believe in the christian god. He made us imperfect, and there is no way to know weather or not he exists, so if we make the mistake of not believing in him, we shall rot in hell?
-
Yeah, seems like it would be a waste. I just use ahkam's razor (hope I spelled that right). What's more probable, an almighty being mad us to do whatever, or we created the notion of god to makes feel less small?