The Furry Forums
Furry Chat => Rants and Advice => Topic started by: SadDubwool on April 05, 2015, 12:13:45 AM
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lately people on youtube think its funny to make 9/11 jokes and holocaust jokes...it really makes me pissed they do this...can anyone agree?
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My personal feeling? As long as you are joking about the people committing the acts and not the victims its fair game. those monsters do not deserve any respect at all, and laughing at them is an easy way to remove their dignity.
Jokes about the victims though? not cool. those people deserve respect, and their deaths are tragic.
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Yeah the holocaust one jokes about anne frank
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Oh. :( most of the ones I hear are aimed squarely at Hitler or bin-laden.
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9/11 ones are aimed at the planes witch technically counts
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*Takes a deep breathe* This is gonna be unpopular I can tell.
I think these jokes are okay in moderation. We hold to this, frankly pathetic, idea that treating tragedies such as the holocaust and 9/11 as special and that if we remember them in a certain way we will learn from it and things will be different. GENOCIDE HASN'T STOPPED! It has happened countless times since and we just pretend it hasn't. We need to stop it. It's dumb. Yes it was sad but making talking about these things taboo does **censor** all to fix the problem.
Sorry, this is an issue I feel strongly about. I'm not saying these things weren't important or horrible. i'm saying the idea that we need to make them something we can't talk or joke about in order to move on from the mistake and prevent it is ridiculous. Of course there is a line obviously but I don't see it crossed often.
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Epic Rap Battles Of History's "Darth Vader vs Hitler" has some holocaust-like jokes in there, are they bad?
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Im not bothering to answer Anoni
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According to South Park, something tragic becomes funny after 22.3 years.
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If they weren't laughing, they'd be crying. In order to overcome a tragedy, we have to stop collectively mourning it at some point, become stronger than the tragedy. However, mocking/joking about those that suffered at the hands is still quite inappropriate; it's like prodding at a dog to make it bark, abusive.
But being offended by jokes about the people who committed the crimes? Or the people who have open bleeding hearts for something when it, quite literally, didn't impact them? Stuff like that, there's no point in being offended by the jokes. I'm all for standing up/sending well wishes for the victims and taking down those who coordinated the killers, but unless a family member of yours died in the event, don't sit there weeping about it.
There's always a key in moderation.
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Offence can't be given. It can only be taken.
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Honestly, I think whether or not something is offensive doesn't really matter. Everyone has the right to free speech. As long as it is not hate speech, or speech of plans to commit an act of terror (etc). Everyone has the right to piss other people off and everyone has the right to be offended, but nobody has the right to censor other people (or at least they shouldn't), unless they are imposing themselves on others (if someone is posting something offensive on facebook, you don't HAVE to be subjected to it - just unfollow them. However, if you are standing in a public place with a megaphone blabbering away and forcing people to hear you, then that is wrong and you should get beat up).
I would agree that someone making jokes about the victims is offensive (I even saw it on the JB Roast), but I would NEVER in a million years tell someone that they can't say those jokes. They have every right to do so. If it makes me angry, I can change the channel.
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^My post, + what he said.
Censoring a view or an idea is always wrong. But that does not mean I have to like it.
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As much as I like Teiko and agree with his general point the right to freedom of speech only protects you from the government silencing you. It does not mean someone can tell you you shouldn't have said something. Sorry it's just something that urks me.
I'm also kinda surprised by the amount of people who share a view similar to mine. I usually get treated like I'm an ass for having it. Ah well.
P.S: It's also really cool that no one is arguing, it's all pretty well thought out points which make sense and isn't just a shouting contest which these things usually become. I like it :D
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As much as I like Teiko and agree with his general point the right to freedom of speech only protects you from the government silencing you. It does not mean someone can tell you you shouldn't have said something. Sorry it's just something that urks me.
Can you reiterate that for me?
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Your allowed to say: "Hitler was a great man", but your also allowed to say: "the guy who just said that is a HUGE ASSHAT, and a PRICK!"
I think that's what grovy is saying
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Grovy and I are on the exact same page, so I don't understand why he has a problem with what I just said.
My point about the dude with the megaphone was that you shouldn't be allowed to subject people to your ideas. If you are going to voice yourself, then people need to have the option to not listen to you, and if you're going into a public place and disturbing the peace, then you are impeding upon others' ability to enjoy themselves. That's all I was saying.
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I was just pointing out the right to free speech only protects you from the government stopping you from saying what you want. It does not stop people from telling you that you should shut up and stuff like that. It's a common misconception
(slightly pretentious, I know, I don't disagree with you though. Quite the opposite)
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I never said you can't tell someone to shut up.
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Then I hugely misinterpreted. Yup read it back, dunno what the heck I'm on about. XD All I can say is that I apologise, I am cureently beyond tired so I'm not thinking as straight as usual. Now more than a little embarrassed :$
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Comedy is an important coping mechanism. There should be NO topic which is beyond comedy. I've heard jokes about the Holocaust told be Jews which are hilarious. If you have no taste for gallows humour that's fine, it just means you are not the intended audience.
Watching comedians talk about this very topic, the main thing seems to be if you're gonna go there, it better be funny. Just doing a topical joke on some recent disaster for being topical's sake is in poor taste.
One standup said you know it's a good joke on a touchy subject when the audience is appalled but can't help themselves laughing. The whole crowd cover their mouths with their hands.
As for 9/11 and the Holocaust specifically, sorry Red, but it's really not too soon. In fact, specifically for 9/11, yes it was bad by the standard of what we experience in the fairly cosy first world, but an equivalent act in Palestine doesn't even make the news. For how many years was even suggesting anything other than "it's the worst things to ever happen anywhere ever" tantamount to unpatriotic treason? If not for humour blazing the trail, serious discourse about it would have been harder if not impossible.
Everyone copes differently. I've had three parents die of cancer. It sucks. But I make jokes about cancer when a good opportunity arises, because that's how I overcome tragedy. Do I have the right to do that?
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IMO people are gonna make jokes. And if you're gonna be on the internet or in society in general you're gonna have to deal with that. They don't mean anything by it. Don't take it to heart.
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Life is rife with opportunities to laugh at horrible things.
It's human nature to make light of tragedy.
That's just how it is.
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Honestly, jokes about dying humans don't bother me as much because I see a LOT more people take them seriously and get upset over them than I do otherwise. But animal cruelty joke? I despise them, and I despise the mindset that "Oh, they're not human/They aren't as smart as us/etc." makes it perfectly okay to make "Meat is tasty murder" jokes or other similar jokes. Personally, I think it's disgusting.
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But you are human... o3o
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But you are human... o3o
But at least with dying human jokes, most people generally see the seriousness in situations people are trying to make light of, so they take them more seriously. Plus, I'm sick of this stupid rule that I have to have more sympathy and be more insulted by human death jokes just because I am human.
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really, why should I care if they're cruel? of course I don't get behind wanton violence, but I do heartily believe in the ability to laugh at horrible things. it's a coping mechanism.
and honestly I think you believe that to make yourself feel like you're above them. THAT is also human nature. we're disgusted at things people do because it makes us feel better about ourselves. Rich people think they're better than poor people because they have no class, and vice versa because the rich people likely haven't lifted a finger to ever do work themselves.people who don't think they're any better than someone else are typically depressed, defeatist, and sad.
So, I assume that us feeling better than someone else is a vital part of our self esteem.
((extremely sorry for the rant XP also sorry if it didn't make much sense either. i need mooore sleeep
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"It's nice that we can laugh at all this at least"
~My grandma a couple hours after having been in an accident that left her crippled for several months.