The Furry Forums
Furry Chat => General => Topic started by: Jack Lionheart on July 20, 2014, 09:25:48 AM
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I'm very curious about what gender identities are represented on these forums. I'm bigender and am always interested in finding other gender-non-binary individuals so, if you don't mind sharing, please select the option for your gender identity. Feel free to discuss your gender identity here, whether you answer the poll or not. ^_^
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There's already a very similar poll here (http://www.thefurryforum.com/forums/index.php?topic=24597.0) ;)
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I am physically a male and as such is my gender.
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There's already a very similar poll here (http://www.thefurryforum.com/forums/index.php?topic=24597.0) ;)
Gender and sexuality are quite different concepts and are relatively independent of each other (although it has been shown that there are some correlations). Generally there are three terms.
Sex = Physically what you are (boy, girl, neither, both) (identified by genders, chromosones and the like)
Gender = Mentally what sex you are
Sexuality = What sex you are attracted to
To illustrate my point, you can have a heterosexual cisgender person and a heterosexual transgender person, both of these people have the same sexuality but have different genders, you could also have a heterosexual cisgender person and a homosexual cisgender person, again someone who has the same gender but different sexuality. So generally gender and sexuality are separate constructs, to the untrained eye a heterosexual transgender person may seem identical to a homosexual cisgender person in terms of relationships and attractions, but the mindset of the person in mind and the psychology of the attraction and relationships is generally quite different.
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I apologize. I hadn't known about these differences, so thanks for explaining.
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I apologize. I hadn't known about these differences, so thanks for explaining.
It's a common misconception that the terms "sex" and "gender" are interchangeable and that sexuality is inextricably linked to one or both but that's part of the reason I made this thread. I like to make people think about different gender identities and help them learn about things they don't understand.
Thanks, anoni, for that detailed explanation. :D
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Hi, jack! Nice poll. I replied as agender although I indentify as genderqueer the most ^_^ I have the body of a female, but I've always felt the most comfortable when I hide my feminine body behind jeans, sports-bra and boy's t-shirt. Although the rest of the world keeps calling me a she (and I don't really have a problem with that) I can't help but feel nice when someone says "I thought you were a guy when I first met you".
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I'm pretty much the same way. I prefer feminine pronouns and masculine titles and like it when people use masculine or gender neutral adjectives for me.
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I suppose looking at this again, I want to change my vote. I had mentioned in a PM to Trixsie about a week ago that I'm 'pretty much straight but with a few differences that would take a lot longer to explain than it's worth' - not word for word, but that's what I said as best as I can remember. Anyways, I'm a straight transgender. I frankly have no idea how that works, but it's what I am as far as I can tell.
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I'm so happy that this poll just sparks a light discussion, not a heated argument like it would become on tumblr :/
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That's why I made this thread. I don't condone heated arguments but I love fostering respectful, educational debates/discussions. L=
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Well I'm born as male xD And I am a male :P So male x3
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That's why I made this thread. I don't condone heated arguments but I love fostering respectful, educational debates/discussions. L=
And that is how it should be ^_^
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I'm pretty much the same way. I prefer feminine pronouns and masculine titles and like it when people use masculine or gender neutral adjectives for me.
I'd love to use gender neutral pronouns for me but I live in Mexico and well, spanish is a ver "sexist" language and there's no such thing as gender-neutral pronouns. What we know as gender neutral pronoun it's still masculine and only plural (ellos). I love linguistics so I may do a study on the matter in the future (huge linguistics nerd over here :P )
I'm so happy that this poll just sparks a light discussion, not a heated argument like it would become on tumblr :/
omg I know that feel. On tumblr there's even people who thing that if you don't feel sexual atraction to a transgender person you're being transphobic .__.
I'm a straight transgender. I frankly have no idea how that works, but it's what I am as far as I can tell.
Sometimes I don't get the "gender stuff" either, sometimes I don't know if I define myself as genderqueer or queer or non-binary (on the matter of gender identity) because they're almost the same thing? but again I'm not quite sure if they're actually the same thing???
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I'm pretty much the same way. I prefer feminine pronouns and masculine titles and like it when people use masculine or gender neutral adjectives for me.
I'd love to use gender neutral pronouns for me but I live in Mexico and well, spanish is a ver "sexist" language and there's no such thing as gender-neutral pronouns. What we know as gender neutral pronoun it's still masculine and only plural (ellos). I love linguistics so I may do a study on the matter in the future (huge linguistics nerd over here :P )
I'm a straight transgender. I frankly have no idea how that works, but it's what I am as far as I can tell.
Sometimes I don't get the "gender stuff" either, sometimes I don't know if I define myself as genderqueer or queer or non-binary (on the matter of gender identity) because they're almost the same thing? but again I'm not quite sure if they're actually the same thing???
I was raised by a linguist so I hear stuff like that a lot (and know a lot about things like the gendered pronouns in the romance languages). XD
The trouble is that the definitions are still forming and changing because gender identity (as something separate from physical sex) is a relatively new concept. From what I understand, genderqueer is an umbrella term for anyone who is non-binary (anyone who doesn't just identify as either male or female). So the term genderqueer/non-binary would include agender, bigender, and gender-fluid individuals. They're less specific terms.
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I was actually the first voter in the poll, and I had a response, but I messed up and erased it. Oops.
But yeah, I am 100% cis, through and through. I feel best identifying as what my physical sex is, but I certainly don't conform to society's definition of a "man." I do what I want, and if I want to lose my mind at how adorable a bunny is or nearly cry because of Pokémon: Symphonic Evolutions, I will do it. There are so many diverse identities in the world; it's really awesome.
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I was actually the first voter in the poll, and I had a response, but I messed up and erased it. Oops.
But yeah, I am 100% cis, through and through. I feel best identifying as what my physical sex is, but I certainly don't conform to society's definition of a "man." I do what I want, and if I want to lose my mind at how adorable a bunny is or nearly cry because of Pokémon: Symphonic Evolutions, I will do it. There are so many diverse identities in the world; it's really awesome.
There's no right or wrong way to express the gender(s) you identify with (if any). That's the beautiful thing about gender identity. L=
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There's no right or wrong way to express the gender(s) you identify with (if any). That's the beautiful thing about gender identity. L=
Oh, I know, but in this time of transition, we still have people who tell me that I'm not a "real man" because I am adamant on emotional expression and things like the aforementioned post made note of. I used to listen to them and was ashamed of myself for not being "manly," but then I grew up and started following this philosophy: "If it feels good and doesn't bring harm to anyone, do it and let nobody stop you."
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we still have people who tell me that I'm not a "real man" because I am adamant on emotional expression and things like the aforementioned post made note of. I used to listen to them and was ashamed of myself for not being "manly," but then I grew up and started following this philosophy: "If it feels good and doesn't bring harm to anyone, do it and let nobody stop you."
Society likes to think, for some reason, that a man it's not only a person with a penis, it also has to be strong, serious, tough, rude, violent, it must feel as few pain as possible and has to always hit back. Of course, this idea of man (this idea of human being) is super duper wrong and does no good. It raises kids who think that being violent is natural and when they're not it makes them feel wrong. I'm sorry you ever felt not "manly" enough u_u
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Stereotypes can also cause a lot of stress as soon as people can't reach its standards or don't want to.
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I couldn't agree wit you more. Yet they're SO ingrained in our culture that most people don't even realize that things are stereotypes. They think they're facts of life and/or don't even understand that society puts pressure on people to fit certain rules.
This actually stems out of human nature and development. Children 5 years old and younger are information sponges and look to adults to learn the rules of the world around them (the rules of language, societal norms for right and wrong, etc.). Among the many things they learn from adults is how people interact with each other. The reason that gender stereotypes persist is because so many people have been completely unaware that they are societally determined and have inadvertently perpetuated them through their children.
If we're ever going to get rid of gender stereotypes, we need to be simultaneously raising children in environments free of gender stereotypes and educating adults about the reality and severity of trying to cram people's gender identities into one of two boxes.
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I couldn't agree wit you more. Yet they're SO ingrained in our culture that most people don't even realize that things are stereotypes. They think they're facts of life and/or don't even understand that society puts pressure on people to fit certain rules.
This actually stems out of human nature and development. Children 5 years old and younger are information sponges and look to adults to learn the rules of the world around them (the rules of language, societal norms for right and wrong, etc.). Among the many things they learn from adults is how people interact with each other. The reason that gender stereotypes persist is because so many people have been completely unaware that they are societally determined and have inadvertently perpetuated them through their children.
If we're ever going to get rid of gender stereotypes, we need to be simultaneously raising children in environments free of gender stereotypes and educating adults about the reality and severity of trying to cram people's gender identities into one of two boxes.
Society sucks. I'm a bit gender fluid I guess. Still finding out more and more about myself as time goes on! But really. Does it matter to anyone else who we are? I'm not changing me, and that's a good thing. You'd think others would be happy about you being truthful about yourself, but in reality, they decide it's only fine to conform. It may seem a bit extreme, but think about it. You should be truthful, THE WAY SOCIETY BASES THESE TRUTHS. I say no. I'm a Genderfluid, bisexual, person loving, self risking (see my fun facts about me post, about me being a future Corpsman/medic in the U.S.N.), future Navy Corpsman. DEAL WITH IT SOCIETY.
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Society sucks. I'm a bit gender fluid I guess. Still finding out more and more about myself as time goes on! But really. Does it matter to anyone else who we are? I'm not changing me, and that's a good thing. You'd think others would be happy about you being truthful about yourself, but in reality, they decide it's only fine to conform. It may seem a bit extreme, but think about it. You should be truthful, THE WAY SOCIETY BASES THESE TRUTHS. I say no. I'm a Genderfluid, bisexual, person loving, self risking (see my fun facts about me post, about me being a future Corpsman/medic in the U.S.N.), future Navy Corpsman. DEAL WITH IT SOCIETY.
I would say that society needs to be restructured, people educated, and ideas changed. That can only really be done if we can approach those who do not understand with a peaceful, casual air so they will hear us out. Fire only breeds fire and that will only bring destruction and chaos.
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Society sucks. I'm a bit gender fluid I guess. Still finding out more and more about myself as time goes on! But really. Does it matter to anyone else who we are? I'm not changing me, and that's a good thing. You'd think others would be happy about you being truthful about yourself, but in reality, they decide it's only fine to conform. It may seem a bit extreme, but think about it. You should be truthful, THE WAY SOCIETY BASES THESE TRUTHS. I say no. I'm a Genderfluid, bisexual, person loving, self risking (see my fun facts about me post, about me being a future Corpsman/medic in the U.S.N.), future Navy Corpsman. DEAL WITH IT SOCIETY.
I would say that society needs to be restructured, people educated, and ideas changed. That can only really be done if we can approach those who do not understand with a peaceful, casual air so they will hear us out. Fire only breeds fire and that will only bring destruction and chaos.
I guess I'm a bit more headstrong, but I agree as well. The compromise really is confidence. People like that. If you're confident, they will see that, and then we are more accepted, even without our cause known.
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Society sucks. I'm a bit gender fluid I guess. Still finding out more and more about myself as time goes on! But really. Does it matter to anyone else who we are? I'm not changing me, and that's a good thing. You'd think others would be happy about you being truthful about yourself, but in reality, they decide it's only fine to conform. It may seem a bit extreme, but think about it. You should be truthful, THE WAY SOCIETY BASES THESE TRUTHS. I say no. I'm a Genderfluid, bisexual, person loving, self risking (see my fun facts about me post, about me being a future Corpsman/medic in the U.S.N.), future Navy Corpsman. DEAL WITH IT SOCIETY.
I would say that society needs to be restructured, people educated, and ideas changed. That can only really be done if we can approach those who do not understand with a peaceful, casual air so they will hear us out. Fire only breeds fire and that will only bring destruction and chaos.
I guess I'm a bit more headstrong, but I agree as well. The compromise really is confidence. People like that. If you're confident, they will see that, and then we are more accepted, even without our cause known.
Very true. L=
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This is definitely one of the more sophisticated discussions. X3 I enjoy it, really. :3
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This is definitely one of the more sophisticated discussions. X3 I enjoy it, really. :3
Wonderful things happen when people make up their minds to be civilized. XD
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Hooyah. I call it using our brains. People often act more on emotion, or instinct (taught or untaught).
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So, now I am not trying to offend anyone here, but I just have some questions for the non-cis identifying furs on this thread! These questions are based to gain knowledge and not to offend.
So, we talk about gender roles in our society, the Male and the Female, and we talk about how it is society that contributes to these gender stereotypes, men being muscle bound and tough and women being weak and "girly". Now my question is what exactly does a transgender, bi-gender or genderfluid person identify as in terms of what they see the opposite gender being? How would a transgender person define gender? How does a male transgender person, for example, identify what "girl" means to her, does she focus on the body of the girl, the sexual organs and so forth? Does she focus on the cultural inclination of the girl?
Because to me it creates a confusing contradiction, that if gender roles are psychological and society based, then transgenderism (in the psychological aspect) must also then be psychological and society based (If this were true transgenderism would be as changeable as social gender roles), otherwise if transgenderism is biologically based, then gender roles must also be biological based. I've concluded that both gender roles and transgenderism must be BOTH biologically AND psychological, but I want to know a non-cisgenders opinion on the matter.
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So, now I am not trying to offend anyone here, but I just have some questions for the non-cis identifying furs on this thread! These questions are based to gain knowledge and not to offend.
So, we talk about gender roles in our society, the Male and the Female, and we talk about how it is society that contributes to these gender stereotypes, men being muscle bound and tough and women being weak and "girly". Now my question is what exactly does a transgender, bi-gender or genderfluid person identify as in terms of what they see the opposite gender being? How would a transgender person define gender? How does a male transgender person, for example, identify what "girl" means to her, does she focus on the body of the girl, the sexual organs and so forth? Does she focus on the cultural inclination of the girl?
Because to me it creates a confusing contradiction, that if gender roles are psychological and society based, then transgenderism (in the psychological aspect) must also then be psychological and society based (If this were true transgenderism would be as changeable as social gender roles), otherwise if transgenderism is biologically based, then gender roles must also be biological based. I've concluded that both gender roles and transgenderism must be BOTH biologically AND psychological, but I want to know a non-cisgenders opinion on the matter.
I think it mostly comes down to how each person's brain is wired and what the culturally defined gender roles are. Male and female brains actually work differently, in general, as a result of their different composition. Female brains tend to contain more grey matter (which helps with things like information processing and verbal skills) whereas male brains tend to contain more white matter (which helps with things like navigation and spacial reasoning). These differences can lead to differences in interest and skill (due to the fact that different things will come easier to different people).
In this sense, there are certain elements of gender that are at least partially biological. However, the common gender stereotypes are largely constructed.
When sorting out their gender identities, people often think about what feels right to them and weigh it against what society defines as "masculine" and "feminine." People will identify with these categories to varying degrees.
Ultimately, I don't think we can peg it down to one thing or another. What I was talking about earlier was taking away the pressure to be strictly "masculine" or "feminine" and the idea that there is only one way to express any specific gender.
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So, now I am not trying to offend anyone here, but I just have some questions for the non-cis identifying furs on this thread! These questions are based to gain knowledge and not to offend.
So, we talk about gender roles in our society, the Male and the Female, and we talk about how it is society that contributes to these gender stereotypes, men being muscle bound and tough and women being weak and "girly". Now my question is what exactly does a transgender, bi-gender or genderfluid person identify as in terms of what they see the opposite gender being? How would a transgender person define gender? How does a male transgender person, for example, identify what "girl" means to her, does she focus on the body of the girl, the sexual organs and so forth? Does she focus on the cultural inclination of the girl?
Because to me it creates a confusing contradiction, that if gender roles are psychological and society based, then transgenderism (in the psychological aspect) must also then be psychological and society based (If this were true transgenderism would be as changeable as social gender roles), otherwise if transgenderism is biologically based, then gender roles must also be biological based. I've concluded that both gender roles and transgenderism must be BOTH biologically AND psychological, but I want to know a non-cisgenders opinion on the matter.
For me, my best explanation as a gender-fluid fur would be that it's a self image concept. Dumbing it down because I like being blunt about it, it's how we feel. Some days I feel more masculine and identify as a male, other days I feel more feminine and identify as female. Kind of like how you view yourself in a mirror. Now, physically, I don't see a change, but my "mind's eye" sees a female when I identify as such. It seems complex with all of the official wording and vocabulary, but it's quite simple, really.
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Yeah, the problem is that "feeling" is a very subjective term, and so I'm trying to decipher why you "feel" one gender or another and what originates from that feeling. Not why are you gender-fluid, but more when you say you "feel" like a girl or a boy, what does 'girl' and 'boy' mean to you and how do you define that 'today I feel like a girl' or so forth, is it based on social standards? Or is it unknown.
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Obviously I'm not non-cis, but I have/had quite a few friends that are/have been, and from the way they described it, it seemed really based on the societies understanding of what it meant to be a "girl" or a"boy." Be it from personality, how you dressed, etc.
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Yeah, the problem is that "feeling" is a very subjective term, and so I'm trying to decipher why you "feel" one gender or another and what originates from that feeling. Not why are you gender-fluid, but more when you say you "feel" like a girl or a boy, what does 'girl' and 'boy' mean to you and how do you define that 'today I feel like a girl' or so forth, is it based on social standards? Or is it unknown.
Well, determining which gender I identify as, it's best described as a "gut feeling." Hard to explain if you aren't the one feeling it, but I guess it's based off of what you feel closest to. It's not quite based on societal standards or ideology, more of the psychological aspect of self image. It may be because I have a very nurturing personality. There's no easy way to explain it! :3 And when I feel female, I feel more open to share myself. I'm more trusting, and loving. Although, I'm like that male too. :/ Really, being Female TO ME, is how I view myself. With the norms we are taught, women are given more emotional room. Now, I'm an emotional person, in the sense that I show a lot of it, and since that is the established norm, it does seem fitting. Now, I know what you're thinking, "then why not be an emotionally open male?" Sadly, I don't have an exact answer. It's self image, and you'd need an understanding to psychology, FAR greater than my own, since I barely know anything. X3 I identify as Female because it's who I view myself as. It's who I am on the inside. Hard to understand unless you belong to this group... I hope I helped even a little bit! :3
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Very much reading.
I'm bigender.
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I think "gender identity" doesn't need to be a thing. To me, gender is just a classification of what bits n' pieces you got. Whether you feel more girly or manly is just based on the individual, so why try to conform to a title?
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The thing is, as long as those bits and pieces are around, people will just identify people as their determinate sex, which a decent number of people will not be entirely comfortable with. So the debate will just rise again. Gender in itself may be a construct of humanity, but we are all equally sentient beings in our own right, all exposed to the same information, and so it will be something prevalent in society.
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The thing is, as long as those bits and pieces are around, people will just identify people as their determinate sex
Is this not ok? No offence intended, but why is it relevant what gender you feel like? Gender seems like a biological thing, not a psychological thing. If I was super girly but still had male parts, I'd just call myself male anyway.
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I just realized how terribly worded that sentence is, I think I got unfocused while typing there. It's not bad for people to identify others by their determinate sex, because how can anyone know their preferences until they get to know them?
Forget my last comment, what I meant to say was this:
So long as those bits and pieces are around, there will be people who feel like they are not the right ones for them. Gender is a human construct, but sex is something defined by nature. So, in short, gender = psychological, sex = biological. Nobody can refute the fact that their body is that of a male or female, but you can believe that you were wrongly given said body.
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I just meant folx should lighten up. You get what you get, so try to enjoy it instead of trying to bring the faults to light!
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I just meant folx should lighten up. You get what you get, so try to enjoy it instead of trying to bring the faults to light!
Much easier said than done. Gender dysphoria (feeling that your gender identity doesn't line up with your physical sex) is a very serious problem. It causes low self-worth, depression, and social anxiety. It's a lot better when people are allowed to express the gender identities, regardless of physical sex.
I'm not sure you could possibly understand the depth with which some people feel gender dysphoria. It's not as simple or superficial as someone saying "I don't like the shape of my nose," or "I don't like my freckles." Those are things that you pretty much just have to get used to, and a lot of people can get used to those things. When your gender identity doesn't match up to your physical sex everything feels wrong, from the way people treat you to the clothes you can wear based on society's perception of you.
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I just meant folx should lighten up. You get what you get, so try to enjoy it instead of trying to bring the faults to light!
I'm not sure you could possibly understand the depth with which some people feel gender dysphoria. It's not as simple or superficial as someone saying "I don't like the shape of my nose," or "I don't like my freckles." Those are things that you pretty much just have to get used to, and a lot of people can get used to those things. When your gender identity doesn't match up to your physical sex everything feels wrong, from the way people treat you to the clothes you can wear based on society's perception of you.
What makes you think I don't know this? If you're in the wrong body, then that's different I'm saying people like this are the ones who don't need to worry:
Yeah, the problem is that "feeling" is a very subjective term, and so I'm trying to decipher why you "feel" one gender or another and what originates from that feeling. Not why are you gender-fluid, but more when you say you "feel" like a girl or a boy, what does 'girl' and 'boy' mean to you and how do you define that 'today I feel like a girl' or so forth, is it based on social standards? Or is it unknown.
Well, determining which gender I identify as, it's best described as a "gut feeling." Hard to explain if you aren't the one feeling it, but I guess it's based off of what you feel closest to. It's not quite based on societal standards or ideology, more of the psychological aspect of self image. It may be because I have a very nurturing personality. There's no easy way to explain it! :3 And when I feel female, I feel more open to share myself. I'm more trusting, and loving. Although, I'm like that male too. :/ Really, being Female TO ME, is how I view myself. With the norms we are taught, women are given more emotional room.
That's just personality, on my opinion. Sure (s)he feels more feminine or masculine at times, but I think gender only becomes an issues when it's an actual dysphoria and you need medical help. I've known this guy who was born a girl since we were reaaaaaally little and I could tell all along, despite him only bringing it up when he was in his late teens.
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As someone who is transgender, I find offense in telling someone this:
I just meant folx should lighten up. You get what you get, so try to enjoy it instead of trying to bring the faults to light!
If it was that easy, I wouldn't be struggling and living the life I am. It is not a choice. I have been psychologically distressed to the point where I have been hospitalized for an attempt on my life because of statements like that when dealing with my identity. I was born the way I am, just as you were born cis. There was no moment when I decided to be trans no more than there was a moment that you decided to be cis. I have just always been this way, like you.
Even if you're not targeting transsexuals in particular, I do think it's not cool to invalidate someone's identity because they do not fit into the binary, like CoriShepard being genderfluid. Their feelings and identity are just as valid and still fall under the trans* identity, even if you don't get it. I think she is right in assuming you don't "get it" because there is no "right way" to be trans. Being trans is a very individualized experience. Everyone is different. Some people don't experience dysphoria. Others are crippled by it. Some people transition. Others don't. Regardless of whether or not they deal with dysphoria, they can still identify as a non binary individual or trans. The difference is that some people require medical treatment, and in that case must be diagnosed with dysphoria (as their identity is not a condition to be treated like a sickness). The only "requirement" to falling under the trans* umbrella is not identifying with the sex you were assigned at birth. That is literally it.
The idea of gender is subjective to anyone you talk to. Sure the binary plays into things in terms of peoples' ideas of masculine or feminine, but the fact of the matter is someone who is trans often deals with gender dysphoria, and that is one of the main factors that seperates them from cis folk. I really don't like the idea that seems to be floating around in this thread that gender and sex are the same. Gender is not about what is between your legs. That is sex. Sex is the biological piece you are referring to. I am a man regardless what my sex is. That is my identity, and it does not amount to my parts. I am not trapped in any body. I am male regardless.
I have been lurking on this thread. I voted, but I didn't want to say anything at first to out myself, but given my fursona is clearly trans, I think it wouldn't be hard to guess that I am as well.
Furthermore, I don't appreciate the idea of being limited to my parts. Gender is more like a spectrum rather than a black and white thing like most people are taught. But, in response to Anoni, there are actually several (http://transascity.org/the-transgender-brain/) studies (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html#.U96TMGP7HNo) that show that trans peoples' brains are often programmed like the gender they identify as rather than what they were assigned at birth, so it is very much biological.
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i DONT care what you identify as i see everyone as equals to myself that we are al people just living life as we see fit is others dont like it well those are the people i tend to ignore and talk to the ones that are positive and dont care what some one identifies as in way of gender so if you want to hate me for saying this fine i dont care but know this I DO NOT JUDGE OTHERS that is all from me
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@Mortimus: I think you're missing the point of what I said. In that wall of text you argued with someone who's against trans-gender stuff n' things, and I'm not. There was no reason to bring up all that, I just said that having some feminine and masculine traits is no reason to freak out. It's normal to break gender stereotypes from time to time. To be honest, I find it abnormal not to!
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@Mortimus: I think you're missing the point of what I said. In that wall of text you argued with someone who's against trans-gender stuff n' things, and I'm not. There was no reason to bring up all that, I just said that having some feminine and masculine traits is no reason to freak out. It's normal to break gender stereotypes from time to time. To be honest, I find it abnormal not to!
It just read to me in reference to CoriShep that you were invalidating their identity. If you were saying not to worry about rigidly placing yourself in stereotypical boxes, then I am all for that.
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If you were saying not to worry about rigidly placing yourself in stereotypical boxes, then I am all for that.
THIS! :D
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING T0 SAY! I'm not the best at explaining my thoughts on this kinda stuff, so I guess my point was lost in translation! I think that titles like "genderfluid" are, indeed, rigid, stereotypical boxes, and what you are should be determined by the individual, not by your predetermined "identity". Gender to me is just the biological trait of being male or female, with a few exceptions. (neutral, hermaphrodite, etc.) Your identity is unique to you! :)
Sorry if I offended anyone with how I tried to say it before, but that's exactly what I was trying to say. XP
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If you were saying not to worry about rigidly placing yourself in stereotypical boxes, then I am all for that.
THIS! :D
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING T0 SAY! I'm not the best at explaining my thoughts on this kinda stuff, so I guess my point was lost in translation! I think that titles like "genderfluid" are, indeed, rigid, stereotypical boxes, and what you are should be determined by the individual, not by your predetermined "identity". Gender to me is just the biological trait of being male or female, with a few exceptions. (neutral, hermaphrodite, etc.) Your identity is unique to you! :)
Sorry if I offended anyone with how I tried to say it before, but that's exactly what I was trying to say. XP
Okay, I understand where you were coming from now. The trouble is that human nature calls for labels because humans are instinctively afraid of the unknown and feel most at ease when they can organize everything into categories. The reason these non-binary labels exist is because if there are no words to describe an individual's gender identity (which may or may not match that person's physical sex) then people aren't going to take that identity seriously. Labels are a necessary evil.
As far as shoving oneself into a box, who says there is only one way to be any given gender identity? The labels are more of a general category than a detailed description of each individual person's gender identity. Just because someone identifies as male or female or neither or both doesn't mean you have an understanding of that person's unique characteristics.
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I think "gender identity" doesn't need to be a thing. To me, gender is just a classification of what bits n' pieces you got. Whether you feel more girly or manly is just based on the individual, so why try to conform to a title?
Giant wall of text, there is a tl;dr at the end though.
It's actually been shown that people who do not identify as the gender they are assigned feel real psychological stress from being called the incorrect gender. I mean, I suppose it's hard for me to understand, because I have not had questions about my gender, but imagine it as if you identified as a female. Now gender is a fluid thing, but some people do exclusively identify as a female, not a male or not a bigender, but specifically a female, and in that case they still can't do a lot of things a normal female can do. One example that is often cited is that a transgender female (that has the sex of a male) has to use a male restroom, it seems kind of a trivial aspect, but there's a lot of psychology that goes into it. You feel alienated from your physical gender and at the same time not accepted by your mental one. Some people truly don't feel just "girly" or "manly" but they truly identify as a girl, whether it be the spitting image of the social constructs of the girl, or their brain is actually wired differently. Regardless, they feel that way [to such a degree] that some are willing to change their entire bodies in order to have their physical and mental gender match. The main thing is that it's not just feeling manly or girly, but it can be such an important aspect for people (and it's not very possible to make it feel not important) that these labels can become more important. Gender is pretty much the same as sexuality, in terms of this regard, and while some straight people can call a guy on TV handsome, there's still a fundamental difference between that sort of non-sexual idealistic attraction, and the sexual attraction that a gay person can feel.
People like labels. People like to be called a nerd, a jock, a cool kid, a tall kid, an American, a gamer, a furry, a brony, people love labels. The reason people love labels is relatively simple, it makes people feel like they can belong. If a label exists for you it means other people match that label, which means you're not alone. There is a contrast to this, where some people try to exclusively fit OUTSIDE of a label, but usually these people STILL fit into labels (notice anarchists tend to stick together) but in general most people like to fit into labels. People like to feel accepted and normal, and if there's no label to identify yourself with, you can feel alone, separate from everyone. If you're a transgender you aren't a man and you aren't a women, because it depends how you define male and female, so without the label of transgender, you feel alone. I'm an advocate of simple labels though, I think it gets a bit too far when you exclusively try to call yourself one thing that is nearly the same as the other, but in the case of transgender there isn't really a label for that.
So basically, tl;dr. Having a differing gender to your sex is not just believing you are manly or girly, it is instead something much deeper, it is comparable to the difference of a straight person admiring a male body and a gay person doing so. Labels are important because they allow people to feel they belong in a community, almost everything is in a label, such as being a gamer, if you do not fit into a label you may feel alone and so people like being able to fit into labels.
Do I agree with the classification of labels? No, ideally people wouldn't worry about that. But I can definitely understand why people do.
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When I say don't worry if you don't fit into a rigid box, I mean don't allow a box to cause you stress. Don't make the label dictate who you are. I have seen many folks try to do things to fit in, or stress out when they don't fit entirely into one category or another. I, for one, don't have a specific box for my sexuality, for example, but I use labels that are close to what I am, boxes if you will, and don't worry when I can't find something that encompasses the entirety of what I am. Everyone is different and boxes have wiggle room. Labels are nice for finding people with common intrests or traits, but it's not the end of the world if you're not everything that box requires.