The Furry Forums
Furry Chat => Rants and Advice => Topic started by: Tron Cat on June 26, 2012, 10:15:04 PM
-
First off let me just say that this is my opinion and i think every is entitled to have an opinion and if i make anyone mad I'm sorry. I my self am gay and i personalty am angered by people that say gay marriage is wrong and should not be allowed. Who are they to say what is right or wrong and is it not our right to get married in our pursuit of happiness. People who say its wrong all ways have the same EXPLETIVE DELETED argument that it is agents god which the act of say that it is agents god show their stupidity if it truly was then why would god make gay people in the first place. One more thing these people who say its wrong and make it their goal to make sure that it is not made legal don't they have better thinks to do than pore hate on people that have never wronged them over something that dose not even concern them.
This my opinion on the mater and I hope i didn't make anyone mad but if i did sorry but every has the right to an opinion and i'd like to heir all of yours on this mater.
-
If they're not gay, why should they care? They won't lose their job, they won't lose their house, they won't lose anything. People just hate people who are different from them, sadly.
-
I think people have every right to believe what they want about gay marriage but when they want their belief to become law then they've taken it too far. In my opinion, if two legal, consenting adults who love each other want to get married then they have every right to do so.
-
There are definite flaws with common arguments that say that gay marriage is wrong.
A) Gay Marriage is against god!
-Yes, it is, but that does not mean that gay marriage should be illegal, religious marriage is only ONE form of marriage, there are others including the idea of state marriages, which legally marries people through the state system rather than through a religion.
B) Gay Marriage will destroy the holy institute of marriage!
-Even if that was true, it's irrelevant, the holy institute of marriage has already been destroyed with people marrying for only 1 year (or even a few weeks) and two thirds of all marriages leading to divorce.
Those are the two main arguments and they aren't that great.
-
For me it's normal to see gay people. Some gay people are nice some aren't; There just like each other person.
If they want to Merry, why not.
-
Eh, people's opinions are people's opinions. If a religious state says that it is wrong they can make it law and I accept that, but most countries aren't religious in nature, and any regulation on sexual preference or pairbonding really defies those inalienable rights we hear so much about...
But you won't change people by complaining about it. The more of an issue it becomes, the more hat eit will recieve... It's social friction, the pressure has to be applied just right...
Now I do see ONE issue with gay marriage in that there were some problems with religious institutions refusing to marry homosexual couples (which is, as we should all know, their right as religious institutions) being sued by said couples, but that can be easily rectified with some minor legislation.
-
I do see ONE issue with gay marriage in that there were some problems with religious institutions refusing to marry homosexual couples (which is, as we should all know, their right as religious institutions) being sued by said couples, but that can be easily rectified with some minor legislation.
Very good point, allowing gay marriage should not infringe on the rights of religious people.
If they don't wish to allow same-sex marriage within their own church then they shouldn't have to.
-
I feel that such legislation protecting the opinions of such institutions would do a lot to ease tensions down here in SoCal, but I dunno how much it would help elsewhere.
-
I think there it is inevitable that gay marriage becomes legal all over the world,
the people against it are just scared of change and i think ignorance is playing a major role.
However the stupidity of some people who now chose to boycott Oreo because of their choice to support Gay rights.
None the less, I support you.
-
It's a fairly modern trend in the scheme of things, too.
Look at renaisance italy.
-
If they're not gay, why should they care? They won't lose their job, they won't lose their house, they won't lose anything. People just hate people who are different from them, sadly.
Well said but, don't think they "hate" whats different ,but some do, I think they are just afraid of the change.
-
I suppose that's a good way to describe it too. And yes, by "people", I meant "individuals opposed to gay marriage."
-
I am totally on favor of gay marriage. I myself am not gay, but I have friends who are. If they aren't allowed to marry, are they even counted as humans by society? One of those friends fell in love with me. That did scare the crap out of me. I said some terrible things... But this event did open my eyes. In what kind of world do we live? Those people, for whatever reason, hate around the 10% of the world. That is the number of people that are gay, lesbian, bi, transsexual. I hope that the world will open its eyes, cause only 21% of the world population is in favor of the gay people.
Obama is in favor of gay marriage. He is right. Sadly, from the stories I heard, the majority of the American citizens has a different opinion... :(
-
What really gets me is that it's called "gay marriage", why? Why?!
Is hertrosexual marriage called "straight marriage"? No it bloody well isn't. So why isn't homosexual marriage just accepted as "marriage", because that's what it is, 2 humans who love each other, making a bond together in the form of marriage. Thats what i think anyway. People just called it gay marriage to make it separate from "their" form of marriage (for whatever reason religion or just culture made it a thing of difference) when it really isn't.
Gays, straights, bi's... Everyone of us is human, everyone of us deserves the right to marry who we please, that's what rights are! Someone being denied right to happiness because someone else thinks it infringes on their rights? What a load of BS! It's hate crime in my eyes, I mean people use the word homophobe as well, but I thought about this and let me just explain phobia to y'all;
Phobia from the Greek: φόβος, Phobós, meaning "fear" or "morbid fear"
Its a fear... so homophobia = a fear of another humans sexuality? I mean sorry but thats crap, how can you have a fear of that... Its a lie, it really is, you wanna know what I call these people instead? Horrible twats (I normally use a much stronger word that twats but I'm trying to follow de rules :| )
-
I think it's everyone's right to debate what's right and what's wrong. It's how we figure out what is right and what's wrong (or what simply is) instead of just saying that whatever we want to do and whatever feels good is right regardless of how it affects others or any damage - obvious or otherwise - that it causes. Just think, if we never argued ethics, even things that we already agree or disagree with, we'd have significantly more bad things in our midst simply because we never bothered to look at them with a critical eye in the name of "tolerance." Maybe less good things, too.
I'm bisexual and I support the right of the opposition to peacefully disagree and protest because of what their ability to debate right and wrong supports in the big picture. A lot of arguments on both sides are pretty poor, though, and when people bring violence into the picture it's a whole different story.
I've spent time in communities where debate and criticism are smothered, and it's terrifying. I grew up in a spiritual community so intent on never offending anyone or being intolerant that nobody even dared speak out against people who were leading members as young as 11 (me) into dangerous practices to feel powerful. "Tolerance," in its bastardized form, stripped me of my identity for years when those illusions crumbled because to argue with what people believed and enjoyed even if something didn't seem right or clashed with their own beliefs and values would just be mean, right? I don't agree on the topic, but we need the ability to argue. Right now it's something we think is fine, but we can't cherry-pick what does and doesn't get the once-over or the thousand-over.
Defend the topic and defend it well, don't attack the opposition for being opposition.
-
If you don't attack the opposition you'll be fighting/defending forever... Or worse, you'll lose to a selfish belief. This is a simple statement of some people denying other people's right to happiness... Thats not right, you seriously think that some people have the right to stop other peoples rights? Are you serious?! If people don't agree then... Well they can piss off then, that's what any respectable person would do in that situation; Find somewhere where they don't have to deal with it, not start crapping on the other persons dreams for selfish reasons.
You think I'm gonna sit around simply debating this crap? No, you think blacks would have rights these days if they sat around and debated all the time? No. Fighting for rights isn't about violence, however it IS about never giving up the "good fight"...
How about women? Would they have got rights if you sat around talking about it without action? I doubt it... You know why they did? Because they fought the opposition for their rights, and they got the rights that they deserved! Which is how it should be. So if you are seriously saying that gays shouldn't fight the opposition, then I'll kindly tell you to think again...
This isn't a debate, its a f***ing set of rights... As I said before, they're called "Rights" for a reason, you have a right to them. I may not be gay but i'll stand with my fellow humans and fight for whatever rights they are being kept from.
Thanks for reading, much love, here if you need me,
King Furjangles <3
-
If you don't attack the opposition you'll be fighting/defending forever... Or worse, you'll lose to a selfish belief. This is a simple statement of some people denying other people's right to happiness... Thats not right, you seriously think that some people have the right to stop other peoples rights? Are you serious?! If people don't agree then... Well they can piss off then, that's what any respectable person would do in that situation; Find somewhere where they don't have to deal with it, not start crapping on the other persons dreams for selfish reasons.
You think I'm gonna sit around simply debating this crap? No, you think blacks would have rights these days if they sat around and debated all the time? No. Fighting for rights isn't about violence, however it IS about never giving up the "good fight"...
How about women? Would they have got rights if you sat around talking about it without action? I doubt it... You know why they did? Because they fought the opposition for their rights, and they got the rights that they deserved! Which is how it should be. So if you are seriously saying that gays shouldn't fight the opposition, then I'll kindly tell you to think again...
This isn't a debate, its a f***ing set of rights... As I said before, they're called "Rights" for a reason, you have a right to them. I may not be gay but i'll stand with my fellow humans and fight for whatever rights they are being kept from.
Thanks for reading, much love, here if you need me,
King Furjangles <3
When you attack the opposition and not the issue at hand, you're clearly out of ammo and need to leave. I support everyone's right to argue about what is and isn't right/wrong, and what should or should not be considered a right in a community we all have to live in - and to take action. Bitching about how everyone against you is ignorant, dumb, hateful, needs to go away and shut up, etc, ignores the problem, though, which is one side saying yes and the other saying no. It's not an action and it doesn't even make progress or generate ideas or solutions like real debate and discussion. Not attacking the opposition doesn't mean to take no action, it means to take action to support or further a cause and not to insult or silence opposition.
Happiness is not a good reason for something in itself. I can name hundreds of things that could make someone happy but cause harm to or disrespect others, and that's the crux of arguments against gay marriage - that it will disrupt or cause harm. You can't ask for tolerance while refusing to think of how other people see the world, that's hypocrisy.
Don't like it? Disprove it and leave the people and their right to argue alone as you value your ability to argue against popular or unpopular opinion.
Most beliefs are selfish, though. I've been in hyper "tolerant" and "loving" subcultures, and all that's ever meant is that people will lambast anyone who feels uncomfortable about something they support, such as porn (even if they ask for help understanding!), with demands to go away, educate themselves, or stop being ignorant, but elsewhere on the same forum someone can be trying to confess a very strange and personal problem in a Life Advice section and their thread will be filled with jokes on the subject with the only one telling them to stop being a moderator. They don't get a chorus of defenders despite it being a more serious case of disrespect and intolerance because nobody is personally involved with it like they are with porn. Ideals and principles apply as convenient, for pretty much everyone everywhere from my experience in this life.
Why not treat issues as objective battles of a combination of needs and wants where everyone gets to have their say if morals are so subjective and flexible?
-
Is hertrosexual marriage called "straight marriage"? No it bloody well isn't. So why isn't homosexual marriage just accepted as "marriage", because that's what it is, 2 humans who love each other, making a bond together in the form of marriage. Thats what i think anyway. People just called it gay marriage to make it separate from "their" form of marriage (for whatever reason religion or just culture made it a thing of difference) when it really isn't.
The idea of a society implements social constraints and beliefs of the majority. That is a simple undeniable fact of life.
Should it be called gay marriage? no. But it's extremely easy to see why it is. It's called gay marriage because people need to differentiate it from classical heterosexual marriage, and, because it is homosexual marriage, it is called gay marriage for ease of use.
Someone being denied right to happiness because someone else thinks it infringes on their rights
this is where debate comes into it's own. If you can logically debate and *win* the majority over, you will be crowned victorious and your right will be undeniable in society.
Its a fear... so homophobia = a fear of another humans sexuality? I mean sorry but thats crap, how can you have a fear of that... Its a lie, it really is, you wanna know what I call these people instead? Horrible twats (I normally use a much stronger word that twats but I'm trying to follow de rules :| )
No offense intended, but I think this is the wrong way to look at the issue.
If someone is brought up their entire life to believe in a system that works, believe in something as being right. They are taught it is right by those who they respect and love. How can they be expected to question it so immediately and thoroughly?
The issue isn't that they are "twats" the issue is that the people have been brought up so their brain functions in a different logical manner, or their beliefs simply do not reflect those of others.
One must work towards the goal of education of these people so they can have a proper full understanding of what is actually going on around them.
If you don't attack the opposition you'll be fighting/defending forever... Or worse, you'll lose to a selfish belief.
This is known as an "ad hominem" attack (aka, informal/logical fallacy). It doesn't work in any argument now, it didn't work 100 years ago. I highly recommend against it. Stick to the issue at hand, convince them, convince those who have influence, convince those with power, convince everyone you can.
If you walk up to someone on the street, who is an easily influenced person, and you notice they are holding a "god hates fag" sign. If you tell them to "piss off" what will you have accomplished? nothing.
Debate the issue, convince others, make a difference.
You think I'm gonna sit around simply debating this crap? No, you think blacks would have rights these days if they sat around and debated all the time? No. Fighting for rights isn't about violence, however it IS about never giving up the "good fight"...
I will ask you, how was it that African Americans gained their rights? was it through violence and hate against those who disagreed? No.
the "good fight" as you describe it was debate, logical argument, and emotional sympathy. Not attack.
How about women? Would they have got rights if you sat around talking about it without action? I doubt it... You know why they did? Because they fought the opposition for their rights, and they got the rights that they deserved! Which is how it should be. So if you are seriously saying that gays shouldn't fight the opposition, then I'll kindly tell you to think again...
Fight? I mean, they didn't literally fight. They argued, they "fought" through peaceful means-they protested. They *convinced* others of their rights. They made them understand they had the same rights as they did. Fighting the opposition does not consist of attacking them. It consists of converting, debating, and convincing them.
Debate is HOW you win these fights.
defend your position, defend it well.
As for the particular issue at hand....
Of course gays deserve the right to marriage. In any situation where they are controlled by a non-religiously influenced government, they deserve the same exact rights as any other person around them.
However, this is my opinion, my belief. I will debate it, I will influence others, and I will support it. But I don't expect people to automatically accept it. I would like it if they would, but I do not have that luxury. As thus, I *must* fight for it-through debate, argument, and support.
-
I believe people should be happy, and if it takes something like that to help them achieve that, then they should have all the right in the world to do so. No government or anyone else should dictate how a person wants to live their life, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone, and I don't believe homosexual marriage will hurt anyone; what could it possibly do that will harm anyone? Will it cause a similar effect to a terrorist attack or something? If you impede people's harmless desires and dreams then you're only going to cause more problems than if you were to just leave them alone.
-
You need to look from their POV as much as they need to look from yours.; I don't think you fully understand their motives.
But that's life
Also, notice that gay marriage is getting closer to being in the favor of the law. I assure you it will not be illegalized throughout America, and if it is, it will not last more than two presidential terms. I advise you don't get worked up over something we can't really influence through ranting. But if you're going to protest for gay rights, I'm all for it
-
I just wanna say, if marriage is so sacred, why don't they outlaw divorce?
-
Everyone is so quick to speck on the subject but let me ask you all this out of all the people who replied to this topic how many of you have face true pregidous and know how it feels to be told no you can marry the person you love because they are the wrong sex.
My feonsay and I want to get married and we have searched high and low but everywhere we go we are given the same answer "No" so we are not sure what we are going to do but we will most likely will have to leave the county and go to Canada to get married.
-
It's ridiculous! Love should matter, not gender! If you truly love someone, no matter what there sex, you should have every God-given right to marry that person. And another thing, if WE can't get married, then drunk people in Las Vegas shouldn't be allowed either. It angers me to no end! >:( <This emoticon is not enough to express my fury!
-
To be honest i dont think its wrong. I think that love is love it does not matter what gender you are. And what angers me the most about some people is that they just hate them because there gay! >:( I have met people like that and to be honest you dont want to.
I mean i know marrage is religous but anyone should be aloud to marry. they are just anyone like me or you! I could say more to express my anger but i wont for now.... Thanks for reading.
-
I personally think gay marriage should be legal, though respectful of the rights of specific institutions. A friend of mine also has a stance that I almost like better. "Marriage is defined as the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law. I believe there should be, rather than 'gay marriage' which is impossible by definition, an equal but different-named process for homosexuals. Maybe they can keep it more sacred than the straight people did and rub it in their faces later." I found it funny, honestly, and agreed with him to some extent. No offense meant to anyone.
-
I agree that gay marriage should be legal ^_^ . Sadly these things take awhile to change D: . Although at the rate the country is currently heading we seem to be fast approaching the legalization ^_^ . I wish you and your mate the best Underground Furry B) . Hopefully the country with stop being so silly soon @.@ !
-
this does me thing about 10 years ago when the first gay couple where married.
I think in the future everywhere can gay people marry.
for the gay people here, just join the gay pride. I think that is a good thing to do.
-
If two of same sex love each other and want to get married then let them be.
-
Gay marriage opposition existance kinda makes me feel bad for the world, since its so behind that such silly issues still exist.
But what i see is just the human nature and its need to feel better.
When something is different and represents something that you were taught is wrong(being straight) then some people might have extra reasons to be against gay marriage, because if it was right, then it means you are wrong. People hate that way too much.
And when you have law, society, religion, popular known people, majority on your side its really easy to be against some minority, all these are practicaly saying "they are wrong, you are right and better than them", and how many people do you think will refuse the chance to feel better and superior towards some x minority when everyone suggests that its the right thing to do.
Though i dont believe politics are that silly, they only support or go against the gay marriage to appeal to certain masses, thats the main reason its still not legal imo.
But honestly now, lets say humans find an alien race.
Tv shows that they are violent and primitive and commit crimes and hurt humans (popular figures)
Science shows that their genetic structure is inferior to humans (science)
Most people think those aliens are horrible beings (society)
Laws appear to limit the aliens because they are "dangerous" (law)
Religion appears that says how humans are better than aliens. (religion)
Unless someone has a really huge belief that everyone should be equal or realy avoids discriminating against any minority he will hate them or think he is superior to that trash, and the goverment will be happy since he found free slaves and the masses have no problem with that because aliens are "inferior violent bad race" while humans are "superior awesome race"
Aah humans, hilariously bad thing XD
-
I am with crash2449 he makes some very good points.