The Furry Forums
Furry Chat => Rants and Advice => Topic started by: Count of Cutesy on February 04, 2011, 06:08:03 PM
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It seems like every where I go, when there's a topic about Animals, everyone in the topic seems to say stuff like "Animals are unimportant," and "Humans are more valuable than animals, who have no value." I also noticed a rise in animal cruelty and hunting. What's more, there seems to be more and more games, TV shows, etc with animals and animal lovers as badguys, and to make matters worse, animal hating people as the goodguys. Even Animal Planet these days rarely shows how facinating animals are in favor of how horrible they are. Have animals really become this worthless?
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I honestly have no idea where you've got this from. For me it seems like the opposite is happening.
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Not to me, and they never will. In my eyes, animals will ALWAYS win over humans, because they have something we don't, and that's purity. Their lives are more or less ran by survival of the fittest, not ran by little pieces of paper with numbers and presidents on them. Animals are the best thing on this planet, all of them from avians to reptiles and everything in between. I won't ever stop caring...
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I agree with both of you. There is an expansion of both beliefs. I lived in California where certainly Puncia's view was much more perfered. Now I'm in Oklahoma where there is a lot of hunting and BEEF license plates and such.
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Odd, that's what it seemed like to me, anyway.
Not to me, and they never will. In my eyes, animals will ALWAYS win over humans, because they have something we don't, and that's purity. Their lives are more or less ran by survival of the fittest, not ran by little pieces of paper with numbers and presidents on them. Animals are the best thing on this planet, all of them from avians to reptiles and everything in between. I won't ever stop caring...
I'm sorry, but as much as I like animals, that's a pretty big stretch.
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Well, that's just my opinion. You're free to take it or leave it.
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Over the web and such, I see more and more PETA people and vegs and the lot. People that are pro animals and anything from "Eh, hunting for sports is kinda bad", all the way to "I refuse to drink milk even though not milking the cow is animal abuse".
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That might account to why. To many insane animal lovers and not enough sane ones, Ergo, I see more and more people who say they hate anything that's not human.
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Not to me, and they never will. In my eyes, animals will ALWAYS win over humans, because they have something we don't, and that's purity. Their lives are more or less ran by survival of the fittest, not ran by little pieces of paper with numbers and presidents on them. Animals are the best thing on this planet, all of them from avians to reptiles and everything in between. I won't ever stop caring...
Couldn't have said it better myself..
I got the question once, that if I was in a house that was burning down and had just enough time to save either a dog puppy or a baby, which would I save?
I said that I was unsure, that I would try save both if I could, but if I only could take one, I would probably go for the puppy tbh! But it really would depend on the circumstances...
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i agree with bunnycorn on one thing...that the humans capacity for cruelty is ENOURMOUS
i was watching the animalplanets rescue show..and i cried alot
there was a tiny puppy left to die with hudnreds of ticks in his ears sucking the life from him
a rottwiler with her 2 puppies (had 8 but the others died) left to die from starvation and dehydration in someones back yard with a dog that was dead and hanging from the fence by its leash.
another mommy dog with her litter of 10 and she was nothing but skin and bones...LITTERALY. they said she was like...a DAY away from death
and the final straw before i couldnt watch it anymore was a poor little dog with its legs all ductaped together..its mouth duct taped closed..put in a plastic bad and left on the side of the road to die in the heat.
i cannot even begin to even COMPREHEND how ANYONE could be so evil and cruel to ANYTHING. it made me hug my dog and be glad he never had to live like that. its truely sickening what some people do.
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That's really bad. I don't think I'll ever be able to watch that show. So many cruel humans.
the reason i watch it is so that i can know whats out there happening to those poor animals...and to see the filthy humans that do it get brought to justice
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Just for the record, I am in no way saying an animal has more value than a human. However...
i agree with bunnycorn on one thing...that the humans capacity for cruelty is ENOURMOUS
i was watching the animalplanets rescue show..and i cried alot
there was a tiny puppy left to die with hudnreds of ticks in his ears sucking the life from him
a rottwiler with her 2 puppies (had 8 but the others died) left to die from starvation and dehydration in someones back yard with a dog that was dead and hanging from the fence by its leash.
another mommy dog with her litter of 10 and she was nothing but skin and bones...LITTERALY. they said she was like...a DAY away from death
and the final straw before i couldnt watch it anymore was a poor little dog with its legs all ductaped together..its mouth duct taped closed..put in a plastic bad and left on the side of the road to die in the heat.
i cannot even begin to even COMPREHEND how ANYONE could be so evil and cruel to ANYTHING. it made me hug my dog and be glad he never had to live like that. its truely sickening what some people do.
What you said, that just makes me want to die. I knew there were some people who were cruel to animals, but the last thing would just be unforgivable to me.
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Just for the record, I am in no way saying an animal has more value than a human. However...
i agree with bunnycorn on one thing...that the humans capacity for cruelty is ENOURMOUS
i was watching the animalplanets rescue show..and i cried alot
there was a tiny puppy left to die with hudnreds of ticks in his ears sucking the life from him
a rottwiler with her 2 puppies (had 8 but the others died) left to die from starvation and dehydration in someones back yard with a dog that was dead and hanging from the fence by its leash.
another mommy dog with her litter of 10 and she was nothing but skin and bones...LITTERALY. they said she was like...a DAY away from death
and the final straw before i couldnt watch it anymore was a poor little dog with its legs all ductaped together..its mouth duct taped closed..put in a plastic bad and left on the side of the road to die in the heat.
i cannot even begin to even COMPREHEND how ANYONE could be so evil and cruel to ANYTHING. it made me hug my dog and be glad he never had to live like that. its truely sickening what some people do.
What you said, that just makes me want to die. I knew there were some people who were cruel to animals, but the last thing would just be unforgivable to me.
*nods*...and thats just one episode..the abuse and neglect is endless. so whenever i see a coin jar to help abused animals get medical help and new homes..i alwase donate as much as i can
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Me too, but then again, I donate to pretty much every charity I come across.
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Just for the record, I am in no way saying an animal has more value than a human. However...
I am. Humans are way less valuable than animals. Think about it like money and inflation. Once there is a crap load of money printed, its value is lower. There are more humans than almost all animal species, therefore there is much more humans to spare than animals, making them less valuable.
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Just for the record, I am in no way saying an animal has more value than a human. However...
I am. Humans are way less valuable than animals. Think about it like money and inflation. Once there is a crap load of money printed, its value is lower. There are more humans than almost all animal species, therefore there is much more humans to spare than animals, making them less valuable.
i think a more compelling argument would be that were screwin up the place..
we are like leeches on this planet..we take and take and take. you ever see the movie WallE..thats a GOOD idea of what earths gonna end up like. we put ourselves at the top of overall planetary worth, that we have supreme standing here.
animals are here for our conveniance, resources are there to be taken, and we can rape and burn this world as much as we want..and that were already looking to colonize other planets cause were dun effing this one over
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I've thought about "adopting" something with WWF, or ask if I could have it as a gift from my relatives. However, I've seen a few others that do the same and their stuffed animal was larger, cheaper and they got a prize for being the best charity adopting organisation.
http://www.worldwildlife.org/ogc/species_SKU.cfm?gid=32
VS.
https://secure.defenders.org/site/SPageServer?pagename=wagc_snowleopard
For instance.
And I know giving more means more to the cause and everything, though $250 is a lot. But the latter will also only ship to the US which I think is humbug.
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*Sigh* So this is what it's come down to. Two sides, those that hate animals VS those that hate humans. Isn't there anyone else who likes both?
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I do? :P I see humans as animals, but more intelligent and with a far higher self-awareness and all that comes with - good and bad.
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Name 1 reason I should love humans. Humans have done nothing except made me suffer for my whole life, from parental abuse when I was a kid to people beating me, robbing me, trying to shoot me, and other stuff as I got older...I have no reason to like humans at all.
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You seem to forget that not all are as horrible as the people you obviously have lived your life around and with.
Keep in mind that all you hear on the news is about bad people doing bad things, you close to never hear about all the good deeds done in this world. Right now, there are thousands of people planning, creating and/or making their loved one's best memory, one they will remember and cherish for the rest of their lives. There are mothers comforting their children and friends backing up one another. And yes, humans rescuing animals in need. Would you call them bad people too?
Would you call us bad people? Because if you like it or not - we are humans too, typing away on your keyboards.
I am sorry to hear about your experiences and I understand well that you are bitter. But what you are doing could be called racism.
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I don't think that's racism, I'm not singling out any one ethnicity. I hate everybody equally. I do agree, there are good people in the world. The people on here are great people. All the mothers comforting their children and friends backing up other friends are good people. I still dislike them because they get those things, and get cared about, and I'm just left here all alone with nobody to hang out with, and none of the people that do have friends care whether I'm included or not because they don't need me because they already have others, and I'm useless to them. It's really hard to truly explain how terrible it feels after 20 years of being left behind like I'm invisible. I wouldn't expect you to understand that though.
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I understand more than you know, and if you feel that your past should determine your future as much it seems to be doing, then so be it.
Back on topic though, before a mod comes.
I think most people out there do like animals without being extreme.
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The problem is a component of the Western worldview that has been dominant since the Christian domination of Europe - the idea of anthropocentrism. Broadly defined, anthropocentrism is the idea that only humans and human institutions are deserving of ethical (moral consideration), and thereby, any value in the natural world, whether it be other species, ecosystems, etc., only has instrumental value. This means that under an anthropocentric worldview, things in nature only have value insofar as human ends are concerned - when human ends conflict with instrumental value, the value disappears. This is why you see things like "animals are all well and good, but we should still build here even if it will destroy the ecosystem." In this view, only humans and the direct products of human action have intrinsic value, or value in and of themselves.
What we need is a slight paradigm shift - we need to abandon anthropocentrism. In a holistic natural ethic, things in nature which don't accomplish human ends, such as members of other species, or intact ecosystems, have intrinsic value, and must be given ethical treatment even if that might conflict with human ends. For example, in a holistic ethic, we would not destroy a pristine pine forest just because the economic value of whatever we're building can feed ten starving children - and this goes in line with many of our moral intuitions. A thought experiment often used by environmental philosophers is the "last man" experiment. The idea is that there is only one human left alive - humans will inevitable go extinct. Would it be ethical for the man to destroy the balance of a functioning ecosystem to suit his ends, even though he is inevitably the last human?
How does this fit in with treatment of animals? Right now, we treat animals as largely having instrumental value - yes, treating them nicely is all well and good, but we have strip malls to build. We must stop treating animals as having instrumental value, and instead treat most them and ecosystems - even the entire biosphere - as having intrinsic value. This would not require some dystopian fantasy where modern society is dismantled, but it would change what we treat as being valuable. The enviroment, including the animals which live in it (which includes us by the way) must be treated as having moral value independent of human aspirations. That's not to say that "animals have more value" or "animals have less value" than humans - we cannot make ethical decisions by attempting some calculus of ethical value - that's the folly of utilitarian ethics. "Maximum good" is not a possible calculation to make, because values are qualitative, not quantitative - animals, ecosystems, humans, etc., all have different sorts of values and rights that interact in different ways depending on the circumstances.
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Ok, here I go... (Inhales)
I see that humans and animals are of equal worth, because in the end, we're all the same thing, just a bit diffrent looking. However, that being said, its difficult for me to like humans as much as I like animals. Just last night, I saw both sides of how humans are.
I volenteered with the Girl Scouts and they were kind, caring, and when I messed up, they didn't get mad, and they even helped me fix it. That made me feel really good. =D
But last night, my mate almost got killed by some guy over a car accident that wasn't even his fault. The only reason he's alive right now is because his father carries a gun with him.
But back on topic, I think the argument could go either way; their are more vegan/vegetarians and just people who care about animals, but also more jackwads that could care less about them.
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I both like and dislike humans and animals
the humans I don't like are the general bad guys that hurt other things fore selfish reasons or fore no reason at all
The only animals I can honestly say I hate is this one bird that keeps making poopoo on my car, in the same spot every week or so. >:(
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While visually, I think humans are not much to look at. ...Except for the babes. I like the human race as a whole for their intelligence, personality, and all that some humans have done to this planet while ignoring all the bad. Infact, that's another reason why I'm a furry, it's because anthropomorphic animals have the visual appeal of an animal, and the intelligence and personality of a human. In other words, I like furries cause they have the best of both worlds. Although for the record, I like attractive humans MUCH MUCH more than attractive furries, which I don't like at all because I dislike Bestiality.
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Every is entitled to their opinion, whether its their views on animals, religion, sexual orientations, school, etc.
What matters, no matter what your views are, is your actions.
As long as your actions are not threatening or physically harming any living creature without a real reasonable cause, then feel and think all you want.
Feelings are never right or wrong, they just are what they are. You can't control them nor can anyone else.
Besides, it's your birthright. ;P
In my opinion I love animals. They are important and should be considered on the same level of importance as us.
Yes, most of us consumes animals but animals consume other animals as well. As long as we're doing it in a humane-like manner than its fine. Its survival.
Otherwise, the hurting of animals is just plain unacceptable. What kind of person takes joy in hurting another living being, an innocent one in fact.
I mean I can see if its for protection or food when its absolutely necessary, as stated above previously.
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I care about animals... :(
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I always have felt that a human life is worthless, humans have never done anything good for the earth. Whenever I tell people that, they give me awkaward stares. >:3
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I always have felt that a human life is worthless, humans have never done anything good for the earth. Whenever I tell people that, they give me awkaward stares. >:3
No offense, but those awkward stares are justified. You only really think humans have never done anything good for the planet because you zoom in on the negatives and ignore the positives.
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What are the positives then? Please give me some examples.
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What are the positives then? Please give me some examples.
First off, YOUR human. Are you saying you've never done anything good for the Earth?
Secondly, there's plenty of things "humans" have done.
Look at organizations trying to fight for good causes such as to protect animals and/or the environment, cure Cancer, stop domestic violence, etc.
Theirs good and bad in every aspect of everything.
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Keep in mind that all you hear on the news is about bad people doing bad things, you close to never hear about all the good deeds done in this world. Right now, there are thousands of people planning, creating and/or making their loved one's best memory, one they will remember and cherish for the rest of their lives. There are mothers comforting their children and friends backing up one another. And yes, humans rescuing animals in need. Would you call them bad people too?
Would you call us bad people? Because if you like it or not - we are humans too, typing away on your keyboards.
I'm sorry to do a repost but there's no use typing it over again. XD
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I'm saying humans as a whole, it seems like everyone on this forum are good people. I'm talking about how ever since we started building and cultivating animals, grains, etc. the earth's overall health has declined.
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While that may be true to some extent, that's no reason to hate the entire human race.
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I understand where you're coming from Darksky. People are too self centered now days. Maybe there was a time when there was a bit of selflessness left in people, but it has long since died. For instance, look at my situation, I give and do and help everybody else that asks me to, using my time that COULD be used to make my own life better. I bust my tail for people, but when I need some help, they turn their backs. Just use me to do all the crappy work nobody else is willing to do, and most of the time, don't even say thank you for it. People are simply too self centered to be considered anything remotely good. Even the doctors that are supposedly "fighting cancer" do it for the money. They don't care if that poor guy has a tumor in his head. If they can fix it, they get a new Corvette, if they can't fix it, they still get a new Corvette and go on with life. They don't care if he lives or dies. I have never seen a doctor one who truly cares about a patient. It's all for the money check at the end of the week. It's like that in everything these days. It's all about who has the fanciest touch phone or the biggest TV screen or the fattest wallet. It no longer revolves around caring, honesty and integrity, it has all become materialism.
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I understand where you're coming from Darksky. People are too self centered now days. Maybe there was a time when there was a bit of selflessness left in people, but it has long since died. For instance, look at my situation, I give and do and help everybody else that asks me to, using my time that COULD be used to make my own life better. I bust my tail for people, but when I need some help, they turn their backs. Just use me to do all the crappy work nobody else is willing to do, and most of the time, don't even say thank you for it. People are simply too self centered to be considered anything remotely good. Even the doctors that are supposedly "fighting cancer" do it for the money. They don't care if that poor guy has a tumor in his head. If they can fix it, they get a new Corvette, if they can't fix it, they still get a new Corvette and go on with life. They don't care if he lives or dies. I have never seen a doctor one who truly cares about a patient. It's all for the money check at the end of the week. It's like that in everything these days. It's all about who has the fanciest touch phone or the biggest TV screen or the fattest wallet. It no longer revolves around caring, honesty and integrity, it has all become materialism.
Right, because you know EVERYONE on this planet.
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i care about animals. in my opinion some humans are a truely discussing species.
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I understand where you're coming from Darksky. People are too self centered now days. Maybe there was a time when there was a bit of selflessness left in people, but it has long since died. For instance, look at my situation, I give and do and help everybody else that asks me to, using my time that COULD be used to make my own life better. I bust my tail for people, but when I need some help, they turn their backs. Just use me to do all the crappy work nobody else is willing to do, and most of the time, don't even say thank you for it. People are simply too self centered to be considered anything remotely good. Even the doctors that are supposedly "fighting cancer" do it for the money. They don't care if that poor guy has a tumor in his head. If they can fix it, they get a new Corvette, if they can't fix it, they still get a new Corvette and go on with life. They don't care if he lives or dies. I have never seen a doctor one who truly cares about a patient. It's all for the money check at the end of the week. It's like that in everything these days. It's all about who has the fanciest touch phone or the biggest TV screen or the fattest wallet. It no longer revolves around caring, honesty and integrity, it has all become materialism.
I know exactly what you mean, my neighbor is a surgeon and he always laughs about how much stuff he can get for his kids. My doctor is my cousin so I hope he cares about me.
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the resin why people don't care about any one else or any thing is because they only care about money. if we want change we have to slay greed, most people cant do this. as humans we are tormented by the inconstancy of everything obtainable. in other words people are never happy with what they have, if some if some one is has a billion dollars they want 2 billion if they have 2 houses they want 4, if they own the world they want to own 2 words.
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I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who thinks so, thank you Icy Wolf.
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your welcome, most doctors are only in it for the money the same thing with vets they dont care about animals.
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*Sigh* I give up. x_x
Sometimes I feel like I don't even belong at this forum. Surely I'm not the only one at this forum who's NOT misanthropic.
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>_>
There's already been at least four people posting in this thread saying they still care about humans just as much as animals. And likely more who have just not specifically said so.
I do? :P I see humans as animals, but more intelligent and with a far higher self-awareness and all that comes with - good and bad.
Ok, here I go... (Inhales)
I see that humans and animals are of equal worth, because in the end, we're all the same thing, just a bit diffrent looking. However, that being said, its difficult for me to like humans as much as I like animals. Just last night, I saw both sides of how humans are.
I volenteered with the Girl Scouts and they were kind, caring, and when I messed up, they didn't get mad, and they even helped me fix it. That made me feel really good. =D
But last night, my mate almost got killed by some guy over a car accident that wasn't even his fault. The only reason he's alive right now is because his father carries a gun with him.
But back on topic, I think the argument could go either way; their are more vegan/vegetarians and just people who care about animals, but also more jackwads that could care less about them.
I both like and dislike humans and animals
the humans I don't like are the general bad guys that hurt other things fore selfish reasons or fore no reason at all
The only animals I can honestly say I hate is this one bird that keeps making poopoo on my car, in the same spot every week or so. >:(
What are the positives then? Please give me some examples.
First off, YOUR human. Are you saying you've never done anything good for the Earth?
Secondly, there's plenty of things "humans" have done.
Look at organizations trying to fight for good causes such as to protect animals and/or the environment, cure Cancer, stop domestic violence, etc.
Theirs good and bad in every aspect of everything.
I hardly consider a couple people not sharing your views as you being "the only one at this forum who's NOT misanthropic". There's really no need to be so dramatic about it...
And anyway. All that is beside the point, causing stupid arguments, and getting off-topic. The original question was why people seem to be so rough on animals lately, not "am I the only one who likes humans?" So stay on topic without getting all frustrated and argumentative about it, or the thread's getting locked.
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Sorry bout that. Misanthropes are kind of a pet peeve for me.
Anyway, I've pretty much lost hope in Animal Planet. The only stuff they show anymore is A: How mean and vicious animals are, and B: How cruel some humans can be to animals.