The Furry Forums
Furry Chat => General => Topic started by: Seven on March 19, 2007, 10:00:17 PM
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Bad news! I might get banned!!!! It seems my sister took my grandmother's credit card and bought the st. pat's day package with my account. I was wondering where all that came from... Anyway... My grandmother, needless to say, is not happy.I'm really scared that I am going to get banned or something. She is emailing Billy. I'm guessing that is a mod or something. I don't want to get banned!!!
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Worse news... I just found out... I've been banned. Everything I worked so hard for is now gone. Why don't the pricks at imvu look into things like this? I know this sounds pathetic but... I'm really about to cry.
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wait, im confused, how did this happen?
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I'm guessing they saw it as you letting your sister use your account.
I wouldn't know if purchases using a credit card required you to be logged in or not.
Either way it was tied to your account and they just don't care that much to spend money trying to find out.
Yes, it cost them money plus it's well within their authority to simply ban your account.
Mostly because of the T.O.S. you agreed to at sign up.
You're still more than welcome to participate in the forums if you like. =^.^=
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it's still idiotic that they don't care to look into it, it's like killing your best customer cause someone you don't even know told you he was bad stuff.
It's idiocy!
you, or someone, should e-mail Billl and tell him just what happened and how it was not your fault. ok, they have the autority to ban anyone anytime, but to ban someone for something he never did, that's abuse of power. with power comes responcibility and even though they don't like it, they have a responcibility towards their customers. and are thus obligated to look into a matter before acting. all they got is the words of someone thats probably not even a customer.
>-< this kinda stuff pisses me off. >:|
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What makes me really angry is that I had not only bought my avatar name, I also bought anywhere between 5-10k credits every week. And banning me made me lose everything I bought. So, even if this was mentioned in the agreement, they have stolen my money. Plain and simple. Not only that, but they stole from me all the hard work I had done to get where I was. It is just about the same as if they went from this great site, to a simple polygon of the first avatar all over again. I am going to email Bill as soon as I can. My sister told me she thought she was on her account, and she only noticed after she bought them.
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oooh... That really sounds bad =s I hope you get everything back :sniffle:
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yeah, the fact you've been a bigscale customer like that only worsens it, that means they don't give a damn about their customers. and that's bad bussiness. i don't know what's going on in bill's head, byt to ban any customer without looking into the matter is against even their policy. It shows ignorance and incompentence, neither of which should be found in the judgement of a member-responcible person of any site and chat. if they gonna ban people over stuff like that i realy hope half the people we meet, that is asking for cyber, have been booted...
Posted on: March 20, 2007, 01:53:41 PM
yeah, the fact you've been a bigscale customer like that only worsens it, that means they don't give a damn about their customers. and that's bad bussiness. i don't know what's going on in bill's head, byt to ban any customer without looking into the matter is against even their policy. It shows ignorance and incompentence, neither of which should be found in the judgement of a member-responcible person of any site and chat. if they gonna ban people over stuff like that i realy hope half the people we meet, that is asking for cyber, have been booted...
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The fact is it's not incompetence on IMVU's part.
It's very important to keep your account secure. This is one of the reasons they try to keep people from making accounts on the same computer/connection. IMVU does seem harsh dealing with this situation like this. They have their reasons which are quite understandable.
If they treated T.O.S violations like this one with the same amount of attention they do copyright/trademark violations they would have stiffer penalties. You might also benefit to know how little business one person contributes to IMVU's profits.
They tell you to try and resolve copyright infringement with the violator before flagging. The reason for that is because it cost them a fair portion of money to resolve each claim and they fine the flagger for false flagging with stiff monetary penalties. They kind of hide it in their unorganized website. To give you an idea of how stiff those penalties are, if you faultily flagged ten products you would be charged $1000 worth of real credits. I'm not sure I have that correct though.
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How little or how much they make from a single person is irrelevant. The fact is that I was a customer. And to treat any customer with any level of apathy simply is not the answer to a good business. Just think of the Geico commercials as an example. They say, “So easy a caveman can do it.†This appeals to everyone who is not a caveman. However, the cavemen in the commercial are annoyed by this remark on their intelligence, and they appear to be every bit as smart as everyone else, they just look different. So Geico loses the caveman population. So what right? Wrong. The way to make a good business is to treat everybody with respect. And to treat even the smallest contributor to your business as if they are the largest. And your point to them charging in credits is… What? The credits can simply be created with a program. We all know they didn’t pay actual money to get them. All they have to do is program more into their coffers. This might be illegal if they were to sell them through things like Cassopia. But since they create new credits every time somebody buys them from the site… Well I don’t see how losing credits could possibly affect them. As to your comment on keeping my account secure… Please. I’ve got a finger scanner for all my passwords. I simply had not logged out. I usually log my sister in for her when I get off my computer, and she is always logged into imvu from her account. So she thought she was logged in when she bought the credits. The mistake was on her part, not mine. And if imvu is too lazy to look further into things, then they won’t make it as far as they could if they did.
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I think we have a difference of views here.
The mistake wasn't hers.
Keeping your account secure is more than just password protection.
Logging off would be your burden to bare and thus making you responcible for any actions taken with your account.
If she had hacked your account it would be different. Then you would have reason to feel the way you do about how you percieve IMVU to be handleing the situation. I'm not saying everything is your fault. Sure she is guilty of the more serious crime of useing the credit card without permission. It's just unfortunate that you forgot to log out.
IMVU does respect all it's customers. You do have to keep in mind the T.O.S. you agreed to when you signed up when considering how fair they are being.
By using the program, you are telling us that you have both the authority to use it, and that you agree to abide by all of its terms and conditions.
6. HONESTY: The same rules that govern your behavior in society apply to IMVU as well: If you steal anything -- including avatars, credits, personal inventory, or catalog items from other IMVU users or from IMVU, or if you cheat on any of our games, use any hacking scripting or editing programs in the program, violate the Terms of Service, or break the law, we can freeze or terminate your account, and if appropriate, report you to the Police.
8. PURCHASE TRANSACTIONS: When you purchase IMVU products (including credits, credit bundles, avatar name, try-it passes, etc) choose carefully as we do not refund if you change your mind. However, if the products are faulty we will meet our obligations under the Consumer Guarantees Act. If you have encountered any problems with a purchase, or believe that you have been incorrectly billed click here to report billing problem.
Please note that your account may be disabled without warning or notice at any time by IMVU. We will do this when there is suspicion of, a report of, or confirmation of any of the following events:
-- Any kind of payment fraud (Credit Card, Paypal, cancelled check, etc).
-- Any unauthorized use of your IMVU account requiring IMVU to refund purchases made.
-- Any time your IMVU account is used for purchases that subsequently require a refund, reversal, or chargeback, without prior warning or notice given to IMVU.
-- Any other type of abuse which IMVU deems is substantial enough to warrant disabling your account.
If your IMVU account has been disabled due to one of the above events and you feel a reasonable misunderstanding has occurred, you may use our automated BILLING HELP REQUEST FORM to send us a detailed explanation of what took place.
(To find the BILLING HELP REQUEST FORM, click on the HELP tab located in the right upper corner of any IMVU web-page, then click on the "STILL NEED HELP" section).
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the only way to rectify this is by filling out help tickets. Have you done so yet? I am sorry to hear this happened xxundie, if theres anything i can do to help let me know.
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You could start by informing me what a help ticket is.
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http://www.imvu.com/catalog/web_help_center.php
Click on File a Help Request Ticket
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/me wonders how its going
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I fixed this problem my own way. but there are ay too many IMVU super faithful here. Sorry. Love you all! And I will continue to post here in the FF under the name Xxundie. Hugs and kisses!!!
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/me wonders how its going
If his name is Xxundie on IMVU, its not going well since it doesn't exist when I try his homepage
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Again, the problem hsa been fixed in my own way. Yes, the user xxundie is still banned, however, I am still alive and well on imvu.
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any chane youll give us more details? OwO
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My new user name is ISevenI
Now you know, lol.
>.>
I'm gonna make some new forum banners :D
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The fact is it's not incompetence on IMVU's part.
It's very important to keep your account secure.
But anyone can buy credits for anyone by giving credits or gifts. That has nothing to do with it being secure.
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But anyone can buy credits for anyone by giving credits or gifts. That has nothing to do with it being secure.
True, but that has nothing to do with this situation either.
Sorry if you misunderstood.
What happened was that Xxundie's sister made a purchase using his account.
Said purchase was made using a credit card without permission.
That caused the credit card owner to request their money back.
When a request is made for a return on a monetary transaction the account related to the sale
is suspended or disabled pending further investigation.
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suspended or disabled pending further investigation.
so why did they not investigate? if that is a qoute from the TOS they are obligated to investigate, which they haven't. it's as i said, and this makes me doubt their credability as a business.
this is how it *should* work:
'something' happens,
they are alerted by an email,
they suspend the account,
they INVESTIGATE!!!,
they would find out it was all a misunderstanding (or not, if not: account banned),
account released,
money returned to the card and purchase canceled.
finito! besides, what they'd used on investigating, they'd easily earn back.
that would not only solve the problem for all parts, it would also make them look what is called 'professional', but they don't, cause they are too 'greedy'? that wounds their reputation a great bit.
i'm happy you'v solved it your way xxundie :)
but i still think future events like these deserve investigation, we are after all customers, and have certain rights. right of eaquality for one.
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There was no misunderstanding here on IMVU's part.
They did enough investigation. By agreeing to the T.O.S. he was responsible for keeping others out of his account.
Frankly the investigation would have found him and his sister to both be in violation of the T.O.S. if they new she was involved and had an account. And now that he's created a new account he could possibly have that one suspended as well.
Besides it's important to actually read and understand what you agree to.
If your IMVU account has been disabled due to one of the above events and you feel a reasonable misunderstanding has occurred, you may use our automated BILLING HELP REQUEST FORM to send us a detailed explanation of what took place.
finito! besides, what they'd used on investigating, they'd easily earn back.
What you fail to see is the fact that they loose possible profits.
The only way they make that back is by charging some one for the money they spend for investigating.
If they have to "earn" money back that was loss due to a customer's abuse of their services......
Just who is that fair to? Frankly we're lucky it's more costly for them to try to make customers pay them back money they spent
resolving a financial dispute arising from customer's abusing their services. That T.O.S. helps save both parties money.
Seven is only a victim of circumstance. That being forgetting to sign out. If he had it would be his sister in trouble not him.
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i can't see how forgetting to log out makes you an acomplice to crime, can you? not meaning to talking back on a mod, but this is clearly wrongly done to him. just because we sign the the TOS doesn't mean we haven't got customer rights.
lets say you go out to get your mail, by the time you're back you've been robbed, because you didn't lock your door. does that make you the criminal? does that mean you 'helped' the vilain? does that make you an acomplice? heck no! you shouldn't even have to lock your door to go to the mailbox. he leaves the computer without 'locking' his account and he gets banned for it. it *is* a misunderstanding, not from imvu's side but from the series of events.
and what i meant with earning back, is that people buy heaps of creds all the time, last time i bought creds i spent 256 Nok's on it, which is a lot! that just times maybe 4 or 5 should be enough to weight up the costs. they have never got a problem with earning. they got an endless amount of wares, and we buy it, all the time. that is a clear profit.
they didn't even contact him about it, THAT is lack of responcibility. if they had, they would propably know more of what they were facing. all conflicts have 2 sides, i believe that is what the legal system sais, and i believe that is what they fail to practice. they thought that 1 email was sufficient. what exactly does it cost them to contact a customer anyway? Not a dine! they do it all the time, either by private messages, email or w/e.
but heck with that, they can have their TOS and their 'reliable sources' i'm not gonna continue this. i'm getting upset at it. let them have their ways. just keep in mind how litle they care for their customers, their source of income.
they'v lost their status with this wolf.
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Yes, perhaps it is a good idea for you to take a break from this topic if it upsets you.
There's no need to worry about talking back here. That only applies to judgments and rulings.
This is just a discussion.
And for your point there.
It would be your fault, but not a crime. Unless you got the house by entering into a legally binding contract that stated you were to
lock your door when you left the house.
The thing is that you're not supposed to let other people use your account. That wasn't what was so bad.
What was so bad is the unlawful use of another person's credit card.
Just because they didn't maintain a communication with him doesn't mean they didn't investigate.
They likely confronted the credit card company as to why the cc holder wanted a charge back.
They would have learned about the fraudulent charge. If Seven's sister used Seven's card (assume he has one for this what if) and then Seven wanted his money back. Then his account would have only been suspended for a short time.
However, Seven's account made an unlawful purchase with a card that wasn't his. To them it's like he stole it.
And in this situation something was stolen.
Remember like I said a bit earlier if some one had hacked his account it would be different.
just because we sign the the TOS doesn't mean we haven't got customer rights.
This may come as a revelation to you, but just as with driving, the internet isn't a right it's a privilege.
No right was violated here. If you sign a legally binding contract that says if you do something;
and you know you are responsible for actions taken with your account,
and such and such can happen if it's done,
And you do that something or let it happen under your account,
and that such and such happens as a result...What's your problem?
Any way, it's in the past and Seven has dealt with it and moved on.
But with the earning part, you still don't see it quite right.
Just as with locking your door to keep what you have earned there are things that need to be done in this day and age.
Of coarse locking your door doesn't cost you money.
However, hiring people to protect your finances does. Sure in an ideal world you shouldn't be faced with that problem.
What you're saying is that the robber should be able to get away with your stuff just because you're getting more stuff anyway.
That stuff still doesn't belong to the robber.
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What you're saying is that the robber should be able to get away with your stuff just because you're getting more stuff anyway.
That stuff still doesn't belong to the robber.
you don't seem to read what i write, i never said that, i'm saying they got the wrong person, and that they would easily earn back what they spent finding out if he truly is guilty. if i was anonimously to acuse you of murder(ofc i wouldn't), would you liked to be taken right to the life in prison without anything to say for yourself, or would you like for someone to find out that you're innocent and get you out of the mess?
it's the same here, he got unrightfully suspended. and they only cared to get evidence to 'prove' he did it, they didn't care to see what realy happened, they didn't care to get HIS side of the story.
only posted this to let you know you've been getting my points all wrong, you should try reading with open eyes.
there's two sides to everything, and both sides weight as much in any investigation. did they know this? seemingly not.
and the internet thing, i wasn't talking about the internet, which ofc is a priviledge. i was refering to a 'product', being a customer, either in RL or online gives you a certain right, and that is the right to be treated eaqual. if they treat every case like this they are bad business.
last words
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No no no.
I read what you wrote. I understood you fine. I see your side of it clearly.
Perhaps you don't see my side as clearly as I would like to convey.
Either way they did what was stated in their TOS. Perhaps you should read it more.
Seven was guilty by reason of contract.
Besides, the TOS clearly states what should be done in this case.
The burden of proof doesn't rest on their shoulders as much as it does his.
Unless he has contacted them through the help ticket system the matter is over.
No more investigation is needed. They know what is needed to be known.
If he wishes to clear his name he has the chance to do so.
If he doesn't then he's effectively admitting guilt and or taking responsibility.
His rights were not violated if he has done nothing to clear his name.
That contract is very important. His rights concerning the business side of this were limited
by his consent when he agreed to the TOS.
would you liked to be taken right to the life in prison without anything to say for yourself
Your point is moot. You're forgetting about the contract.
he got unrightfully suspended. and they only cared to get evidence to 'prove' he did it, they didn't care to see what realy happened, they didn't care to get HIS side of the story.
Wrong. His account was suspended in accordance with the terms of service agreement.
They do care. They provide a way for those that feel unjustly accused to render their account active once more.
After they take action they are waiting for the accused to speak their side. Not with bated breath though.
did they know this? seemingly not.
What's your point other than to state the obvious? Neither of us knows what IMVU knows on the matter.
So what's the point in asking a question that neither of us knows the answer to? You don't gain any ground in the discussion except
to plant your foot into uncertainty. Which by the way isn't a winning strategy.
i was refering to a 'product', being a customer
That was part of a single point. The internet analogy was used to help you see your own side of the issue.
Or rather how you are arguing the wrong point for your feelings. May haps I was in error to be so vague with you.
He is being treated right. He still has recourse. It's not over unless his actions speak to that effect.
And creating another account to evade his original agreement to the TOS pretty much speaks a mouth full.
It's all about that agreement. He got what he agreed to. And he still has the recourse to resolve the issue.
Although to be right and not be in any bad standing he shouldn't have created another account.
Being that you have chosen to speak no more on the issue I'll accept that and hope that you can understand our disagreement on the matter.
I'll also speak no more on the issue unless some one else wishes that I help them understand what I have already stated.